1 00:00:06,006 --> 00:00:08,049 [birds chirping] 2 00:00:08,133 --> 00:00:09,718 [man] I had no idea what I was doing. 3 00:00:10,969 --> 00:00:13,346 And I had no idea who I was dealing with. 4 00:00:14,222 --> 00:00:16,808 But I knew it was a hell of a story. 5 00:00:17,767 --> 00:00:20,520 So I went into the prison with my tape recorder. 6 00:00:22,897 --> 00:00:26,401 And I asked him, "What sort of person could have done these things?" 7 00:00:26,818 --> 00:00:29,320 [male reporter] Police say he was armed with a heavy oak log. 8 00:00:29,404 --> 00:00:32,574 {\an8}He clubbed and then strangled to death 20-Year-old Lisa Levy 9 00:00:32,657 --> 00:00:36,161 {\an8}and 21-year-old Margaret Bowman. At least one of them was raped. 10 00:00:36,786 --> 00:00:39,789 He insisted that he was innocent. 11 00:00:40,623 --> 00:00:44,169 I wanted him to tell me, who was he... 12 00:00:44,252 --> 00:00:47,172 [male reporter] Diabolical genius, deceptive, manipulative. 13 00:00:47,255 --> 00:00:49,215 [female reporter] He's also a former social worker 14 00:00:49,299 --> 00:00:50,842 and a political campaign activist. 15 00:00:51,301 --> 00:00:54,471 [man] I consider him a friend, he was a very nice person. 16 00:00:54,554 --> 00:00:58,683 [woman] I felt a connection with him. A feeling of wanting to be loved. 17 00:00:59,809 --> 00:01:03,646 [man] I wanted to know what went through his mind, what led up to it. 18 00:01:04,064 --> 00:01:06,483 [woman] Our son is the best son in the world. 19 00:01:06,566 --> 00:01:08,985 He was a very normal, active boy. 20 00:01:09,069 --> 00:01:12,155 [woman #2] His mom and dad took him to church every Sunday. 21 00:01:12,238 --> 00:01:14,115 [man] He wanted to be successful... 22 00:01:14,199 --> 00:01:16,618 as an attorney or as a politician. 23 00:01:17,285 --> 00:01:19,496 [man #2] What are the elements of the crimes? 24 00:01:19,579 --> 00:01:21,081 Why the victims? 25 00:01:21,706 --> 00:01:23,875 [man] This man on the FBI's 10 most-wanted list 26 00:01:23,958 --> 00:01:25,335 has been captured in Florida. 27 00:01:25,418 --> 00:01:27,170 [man #2] Suspected of dozens of sex killings 28 00:01:27,253 --> 00:01:30,006 in Washington State, Idaho, Utah, and Colorado. 29 00:01:30,090 --> 00:01:32,884 [man #3] The discovery of the skeletal remains of six women. 30 00:01:32,967 --> 00:01:35,053 [woman] More than 20 young women in five states... 31 00:01:35,136 --> 00:01:37,680 -[man #4] Beaten and strangled. -[woman #2] Abduction, nude body. 32 00:01:37,764 --> 00:01:40,975 -[man #5] We found parts of four skulls... -[man #6] Sexually molested. 33 00:01:41,059 --> 00:01:43,728 -[man #7] Bludgeoned, raped. -[man #8] These 36 sex killings... 34 00:01:43,812 --> 00:01:45,271 [man] Mutilation, necrophilia. 35 00:01:45,355 --> 00:01:47,565 [man #2] Sexually mutilated by mouth, by teeth. 36 00:01:47,649 --> 00:01:48,650 [woman] Bite marks. 37 00:01:48,733 --> 00:01:50,819 [man #3] He had sex with them after they were dead. 38 00:01:50,902 --> 00:01:52,237 [man #4] Why did he do it? 39 00:01:52,779 --> 00:01:54,405 [woman] It's quite a mystery. 40 00:01:55,949 --> 00:01:59,619 [man] So he looked at me and grabbed my tape recorder. 41 00:02:01,162 --> 00:02:05,291 Then he twisted in his chair and was cradling it like this. 42 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,418 And off he went. 43 00:02:08,419 --> 00:02:11,506 [man] It is a little after nine o'clock in the evening. 44 00:02:12,632 --> 00:02:14,092 My name is Ted Bundy. 45 00:02:15,260 --> 00:02:17,720 I've never spoken to anybody about this. 46 00:02:18,179 --> 00:02:23,226 But I am looking for an opportunity to tell the story as best I can. 47 00:02:24,477 --> 00:02:26,688 I mean, I'm not an animal and I'm not crazy. 48 00:02:26,771 --> 00:02:28,648 I don't have a split personality. 49 00:02:29,732 --> 00:02:31,943 I mean, I'm just a normal individual. 50 00:02:36,656 --> 00:02:38,241 [theme song playing] 51 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:46,074 Advertise your product or brand here contact www.OpenSubtitles.org today 52 00:03:26,998 --> 00:03:28,875 [Jimmy Carter] I wanna talk to you, right now, 53 00:03:28,958 --> 00:03:33,254 about a fundamental threat to American democracy. 54 00:03:34,797 --> 00:03:38,218 It is a crisis of confidence. 55 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,097 [male reporter] The '70s, an angry era. 56 00:03:43,181 --> 00:03:47,060 Inflation, Vietnam, Watergate, Iran, 57 00:03:47,435 --> 00:03:51,606 demonstrations and riots, the rip-off, the scam, the hustle, the cheat. 58 00:03:52,232 --> 00:03:53,483 [male reporter #2] In the '70s, 59 00:03:53,566 --> 00:03:56,444 there is fear: fear of crime in the streets. 60 00:03:56,903 --> 00:04:00,448 Violent crimes were up 130% in the last 10 years. 61 00:04:00,907 --> 00:04:04,786 Murder, up 62%, rape 116%. 62 00:04:04,869 --> 00:04:09,165 [man] In the 1970s, the phenomenon of serial murder 63 00:04:09,249 --> 00:04:12,919 {\an8}was brand new and absolutely frightening. 64 00:04:13,336 --> 00:04:15,296 [male reporter] Motiveless, random killings 65 00:04:15,380 --> 00:04:16,798 sometimes thousands of miles apart. 66 00:04:16,881 --> 00:04:20,134 But at the time, the term "serial killer" didn't exist. 67 00:04:20,218 --> 00:04:22,470 [male reporter] Charles Manson and three girl members 68 00:04:22,553 --> 00:04:24,013 of his so-called family 69 00:04:24,097 --> 00:04:26,516 {\an8}were found guilty of murder in the first degree. 70 00:04:26,599 --> 00:04:28,601 {\an8}[male reporter #2] ...for the murders of actress Sharon Tate and eight others. 71 00:04:29,811 --> 00:04:32,897 The fact, that somebody could murder, murder and murder... 72 00:04:33,439 --> 00:04:36,609 {\an8}[male reporter] In New York, the search continues for the "Son of Sam". 73 00:04:36,693 --> 00:04:41,030 {\an8}The past year, the killer has killed five people and wounded four. 74 00:04:41,114 --> 00:04:44,367 {\an8}...and could get away with it for a long time and be undetected. 75 00:04:44,450 --> 00:04:47,245 {\an8}[female reporter] 13 young women were murdered over a period of six months. 76 00:04:47,328 --> 00:04:49,872 {\an8}Their bodies dumped in hilly areas of Los Angeles. 77 00:04:49,956 --> 00:04:52,625 {\an8}...in the so-called "Hillside Strangler Murders". 78 00:04:52,709 --> 00:04:54,335 It really unnerved people. 79 00:04:54,419 --> 00:04:56,212 {\an8}[male reporter] Police today found six more bodies 80 00:04:56,296 --> 00:04:57,880 {\an8}under the John Gacy house. 81 00:04:57,964 --> 00:05:01,050 {\an8}[female reporter] Gacy admitted killing the young men after having sex with them. 82 00:05:01,134 --> 00:05:03,303 {\an8}You see bodies in your sleep, 83 00:05:03,386 --> 00:05:06,139 you see him in your sleep, it's just too much. 84 00:05:06,222 --> 00:05:08,641 But nobody unnerved them more than Ted. 85 00:05:08,725 --> 00:05:10,852 {\an8}[indistinct chatter] 86 00:05:10,935 --> 00:05:14,022 {\an8}[man] The mysterious former law student with a charming air in court, 87 00:05:14,105 --> 00:05:16,983 Bundy is on the FBI's top 10 most-wanted list. 88 00:05:17,066 --> 00:05:19,986 Being sought for questioning in 36 slayings. 89 00:05:20,695 --> 00:05:24,115 [Michaud] Ted stands out because he was quite an enigma. 90 00:05:25,241 --> 00:05:28,244 Clean-cut, good looking, articulate, 91 00:05:29,203 --> 00:05:30,455 very intelligent, 92 00:05:30,955 --> 00:05:33,416 just a handsome, young, mild-mannered law student. 93 00:05:33,875 --> 00:05:37,045 Yes, I intend to complete my legal education to become a lawyer, 94 00:05:37,128 --> 00:05:38,838 and be a damn good lawyer. 95 00:05:38,921 --> 00:05:43,634 Then I have a great model over here, so I think things are gonna work out. 96 00:05:43,718 --> 00:05:45,053 That's about all I can say. 97 00:05:46,012 --> 00:05:48,514 [Michaud] He didn't look like anybody's notion of somebody 98 00:05:48,598 --> 00:05:50,266 who would tear apart young girls. 99 00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:14,457 [Michaud] Ted and I first met face-to-face on death row 100 00:06:14,999 --> 00:06:16,751 in 1980. 101 00:06:18,378 --> 00:06:20,713 My agent had come to me 102 00:06:20,797 --> 00:06:23,466 saying that Ted Bundy, famous serial killer, 103 00:06:23,549 --> 00:06:27,136 had sent a message out that he was willing to speak 104 00:06:27,220 --> 00:06:29,305 exclusively with a journalist 105 00:06:29,389 --> 00:06:34,268 in exchange for a reexamination of all the cases against him, 106 00:06:34,352 --> 00:06:36,312 which, he said, would prove that he was innocent. 107 00:06:37,897 --> 00:06:40,566 I thought, that if Ted was telling the truth, 108 00:06:40,775 --> 00:06:42,568 that he has been set up, 109 00:06:42,944 --> 00:06:44,570 that it was a hell of a story. 110 00:06:45,571 --> 00:06:49,200 If it wasn't the truth, then it was also a hell of a story. 111 00:06:50,618 --> 00:06:53,830 At the time, I was still a reasonably young reporter 112 00:06:53,913 --> 00:06:56,999 and I'd certainly never had that big a story in my lap. 113 00:06:57,667 --> 00:07:03,464 I think Ted regarded me as somebody to be manipulated or used in his cause. 114 00:07:05,007 --> 00:07:09,762 So I called my old mentor, Hugh Aynesworth for whom I had worked at Newsweek. 115 00:07:10,179 --> 00:07:12,932 [Aynesworth] Stephen called me asking would I help him, 116 00:07:13,015 --> 00:07:15,143 would I work with him? I said, "Sure." 117 00:07:15,893 --> 00:07:19,063 {\an8}It just seemed like a good story, either way it went. 118 00:07:19,397 --> 00:07:23,568 {\an8}And I knew that nobody else to that point had any access to him. 119 00:07:24,235 --> 00:07:27,071 {\an8}People were trying all over the world to get with Bundy. 120 00:07:29,073 --> 00:07:32,577 {\an8}[Michaud] We reached an agreement to cooperate with Ted on a book. 121 00:07:32,660 --> 00:07:37,039 So, Hugh took off for the West Coast to re-investigate the cases. 122 00:07:37,832 --> 00:07:40,460 And I went to Florida with my tape recorder. 123 00:07:47,425 --> 00:07:51,012 I can't tell you how nervous I was walking to the prison the first time. 124 00:07:55,475 --> 00:07:57,185 Death row's not any fun. 125 00:07:58,269 --> 00:08:01,731 The guard took me down this long corridor. 126 00:08:02,523 --> 00:08:05,109 And then around to the left into this room. 127 00:08:06,903 --> 00:08:08,488 Then Ted was brought in. 128 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:14,994 I'd known Ted from newspaper articles, a lot of television. 129 00:08:15,077 --> 00:08:18,956 The mystery, the aura of the most infamous accused 130 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:20,791 mass killer in the country. 131 00:08:21,334 --> 00:08:24,253 Now, we were face-to-face, the two of us, in the same room. 132 00:08:30,551 --> 00:08:35,640 And there was nothing besides his belly chain and his death row clothes 133 00:08:36,140 --> 00:08:40,186 to tell you that Ted was anything other than just a regular guy in his early 30s, 134 00:08:40,269 --> 00:08:42,480 who was there talking over a business deal. 135 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:49,820 And over the next six months, we'd recorded between 75 and 80 tapes, 136 00:08:49,904 --> 00:08:52,365 roughly a hundred hours of recorded conversation. 137 00:09:08,464 --> 00:09:10,758 [Bundy] Testing one, two, three, four, five. 138 00:09:12,301 --> 00:09:13,135 [beep] 139 00:09:13,219 --> 00:09:14,220 [Michaud] That going okay? 140 00:09:14,303 --> 00:09:17,598 [Bundy] I'm getting a red light. Blink, blink, blink. Record. 141 00:09:17,682 --> 00:09:19,433 -[Michaud] That means it's recording. -Oh. 142 00:09:19,517 --> 00:09:21,936 It's blinking. It's not on permanently. 143 00:09:22,019 --> 00:09:25,106 [Michaud] Yeah, well... It should blink in response to the voice. 144 00:09:25,189 --> 00:09:26,941 [Bundy] Blink-blink. Oh, I see. 145 00:09:28,401 --> 00:09:32,405 [Michaud] When we first sat down together, we had a little bit of small talk. 146 00:09:32,738 --> 00:09:34,365 [young Michaud] May I have a cigarette, please? 147 00:09:34,448 --> 00:09:36,242 -[Bundy] Oh, sure, go right ahead. -Thank you. 148 00:09:36,325 --> 00:09:38,494 -[Bundy] They're good for you. -They are? 149 00:09:38,995 --> 00:09:41,706 -[Bundy] Only cause mild forms of cancer. -Right. 150 00:09:42,039 --> 00:09:45,126 It turned out that we had a lot superficially in common, 151 00:09:45,209 --> 00:09:48,963 that we were both born in, in Burlington, Vermont, 152 00:09:49,046 --> 00:09:52,758 and had moved with our mothers to Tacoma, Washington, 153 00:09:52,842 --> 00:09:54,677 a working class suburb of Seattle. 154 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:55,970 We were quite young. 155 00:10:01,392 --> 00:10:04,353 [Bundy] Our house was on Sheridan street, in Tacoma. 156 00:10:05,438 --> 00:10:07,690 Second house from the corner 157 00:10:08,399 --> 00:10:10,776 on the west side of the street. 158 00:10:12,153 --> 00:10:15,698 Moved there, I would guess, about 1951. 159 00:10:16,407 --> 00:10:17,825 [Michaud] We were not friends, 160 00:10:17,908 --> 00:10:19,994 but we actually knew some people in common. 161 00:10:20,703 --> 00:10:22,663 [Bundy] Yeah, I remember Warren Dodge 162 00:10:23,623 --> 00:10:24,874 one of my childhood buddies. 163 00:10:24,957 --> 00:10:28,836 We both went to football practice in the play field across from the tavern 164 00:10:28,919 --> 00:10:32,381 and then we fished at the pier just across the railroad tracks from the tavern. 165 00:10:34,008 --> 00:10:37,136 He was very cautious with me, businesslike. 166 00:10:37,553 --> 00:10:40,222 [Bundy] I'm particularly fond of 167 00:10:40,306 --> 00:10:42,558 looking at things in a chronological way. 168 00:10:43,267 --> 00:10:44,894 Times, dates, places. 169 00:10:45,978 --> 00:10:51,067 I understood from that meeting, that I was there to take down Ted's story. 170 00:10:51,150 --> 00:10:53,611 The story that he wanted to tell. 171 00:10:54,487 --> 00:10:57,948 [Bundy] People perceive me differently from how I perceive myself. 172 00:10:58,824 --> 00:11:01,452 And I need to give others a chance to know 173 00:11:01,535 --> 00:11:04,997 what was really going on, what it was really like for me. 174 00:11:08,417 --> 00:11:09,543 [click] 175 00:11:15,091 --> 00:11:17,426 [helicopter thrumming] 176 00:11:21,889 --> 00:11:24,225 [police radio chatter] 177 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:29,355 [male reporter] In and around Seattle, police began investigating 178 00:11:29,438 --> 00:11:31,065 a young woman who disappeared. 179 00:11:31,816 --> 00:11:35,194 {\an8}Lynda Ann Healy, a 21-year-old, University of Washington student, 180 00:11:35,277 --> 00:11:37,321 {\an8}disappeared from her Seattle apartment. 181 00:11:37,697 --> 00:11:40,908 {\an8}Lynda lived here in this green house in the university district 182 00:11:40,991 --> 00:11:43,661 along with five other university students. 183 00:11:43,744 --> 00:11:46,956 She was last seen here Thursday evening, about 12 o'clock. 184 00:11:50,543 --> 00:11:52,878 [woman] I was a detective with King County police 185 00:11:52,962 --> 00:11:54,255 in Seattle, Washington, 186 00:11:54,797 --> 00:11:57,299 {\an8}and I recall when she had gone missing 187 00:11:57,383 --> 00:11:59,552 {\an8}because Lynda was the... 188 00:11:59,635 --> 00:12:03,681 {\an8}weather person and the ski report person for a local radio station, 189 00:12:03,764 --> 00:12:07,393 a very popular station that I happened to listen to everyday 190 00:12:07,476 --> 00:12:09,812 to see if I wanted to go skiing that day. 191 00:12:10,980 --> 00:12:13,858 According to her roommate, her alarm went off on time 192 00:12:13,941 --> 00:12:15,943 Friday morning at 5:30, 193 00:12:16,026 --> 00:12:19,029 but her roommate says Lynda wasn't in her room 194 00:12:19,113 --> 00:12:21,449 and she never showed up for work. 195 00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:25,494 [McChesney] Lynda didn't come to work on a particular day, 196 00:12:25,619 --> 00:12:28,581 and some of the other people in the radio station 197 00:12:28,664 --> 00:12:30,416 commented over the air 198 00:12:30,499 --> 00:12:33,294 that Lynda must be sick, Lynda didn't show up. 199 00:12:33,836 --> 00:12:36,297 That was very unusual because she was 200 00:12:36,380 --> 00:12:39,175 a person that you relied on five days a week 201 00:12:39,258 --> 00:12:41,719 to tell you what was going on in the mountains. 202 00:12:42,636 --> 00:12:46,599 [girl] I was in my room studying late, probably till about almost 2:00, 203 00:12:47,016 --> 00:12:50,561 and she came in at about 11:30 into my room and spoke with me then. 204 00:12:51,103 --> 00:12:53,355 And she seemed in a really pretty happy mood. 205 00:12:53,439 --> 00:12:55,983 And then she said she was going to bed and that was about 12:00. 206 00:12:57,359 --> 00:12:59,904 [McChesney] When Lynda didn't show up the next day, 207 00:12:59,987 --> 00:13:04,408 the newspapers then proceeded to tell the public 208 00:13:04,909 --> 00:13:07,203 that Linda was gone. 209 00:13:07,286 --> 00:13:08,871 and it was quite a mystery, 210 00:13:08,954 --> 00:13:12,500 because she was a very responsible young woman. 211 00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:16,378 There was a crime scene search at that point. 212 00:13:20,341 --> 00:13:23,093 {\an8}The room was very neat. 213 00:13:23,177 --> 00:13:26,430 {\an8}There was no signs of foul play in the room, 214 00:13:26,514 --> 00:13:29,225 {\an8}except some blood on the pillow 215 00:13:29,308 --> 00:13:31,477 and head area on the sheets of Lynda's bed. 216 00:13:34,188 --> 00:13:37,107 The only curious thing there is Lynda's bed was made up neatly. 217 00:13:38,776 --> 00:13:43,697 [man] At that time, the disappearance of Lynda Healy was certainly unique 218 00:13:43,781 --> 00:13:45,366 for the Seattle area. 219 00:13:45,783 --> 00:13:48,661 {\an8}Back when I first started as a patrol officer 220 00:13:49,328 --> 00:13:51,038 {\an8}with the King County Sheriff's Office, 221 00:13:51,705 --> 00:13:54,291 {\an8}I'd never seen a crime committed before. 222 00:13:55,709 --> 00:13:57,878 And that's where I got my start. 223 00:14:00,464 --> 00:14:04,134 We did not know anything about where she went, 224 00:14:04,593 --> 00:14:08,222 nor had anyone else had any knowledge about where she went. 225 00:14:08,305 --> 00:14:12,226 We have very few leads on the disappearance of Lynda Healy. 226 00:14:12,518 --> 00:14:16,397 Although since the last time that we made a press release on this, 227 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,524 we have interviewed 65 people. 228 00:14:19,817 --> 00:14:22,862 We couldn't do anything but sit and man a telephone. 229 00:14:23,863 --> 00:14:25,155 It was pretty bad. 230 00:14:27,157 --> 00:14:28,033 [click] 231 00:14:30,661 --> 00:14:35,374 [Michaud] Ted's first victim was supposed by most people to be Lynda Ann Healy. 232 00:14:35,624 --> 00:14:40,421 And my conversations with Ted began fairly innocently. 233 00:14:40,921 --> 00:14:43,507 I wanted to talk about the murders. 234 00:14:45,426 --> 00:14:48,512 So I asked him about the murder of Lynda Ann Healy. 235 00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:52,349 [Michaud] We know that Healy went to bed and was never seen again... 236 00:14:53,392 --> 00:14:57,646 I think we've got to try to think in a more narrative kind of way, 237 00:14:57,730 --> 00:15:00,900 about the crimes, with which you have been connected. 238 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,322 -[Bundy] I don't-- I don't know. I'm... -[Michaud chuckles] 239 00:15:07,406 --> 00:15:10,868 [Bundy] My initial reaction is that I don't think that I can. 240 00:15:11,911 --> 00:15:15,414 It seemed to me that when he said that he was going to cooperate with us 241 00:15:15,497 --> 00:15:16,707 and tell us important things 242 00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:18,626 that would help prove that he was innocent, 243 00:15:19,668 --> 00:15:22,546 what he really had in mind was a celebrity bio. 244 00:15:23,505 --> 00:15:26,800 [Bundy] Boyhood on Sheridan Street was not an unpleasant one. 245 00:15:28,510 --> 00:15:31,180 I remember those days, 246 00:15:31,263 --> 00:15:36,769 of roaming and-- with my friends, the adventure, the explorations. 247 00:15:37,811 --> 00:15:41,941 Those were the days of frog hunting and marble playing. 248 00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:47,863 [Michaud] Ted had an idealized version of his boyhood. 249 00:15:48,322 --> 00:15:51,992 [Bundy] First grade I was somewhat of a champion frog catcher. 250 00:15:52,076 --> 00:15:54,536 I mean, I was a frog man. 251 00:15:55,496 --> 00:15:57,414 Prided myself on my ability 252 00:15:57,498 --> 00:16:00,042 to spot that pair of bulging eyes... 253 00:16:01,293 --> 00:16:04,880 which would bob just above the surface of a murky pond, 254 00:16:08,008 --> 00:16:11,303 [woman] Growing up in Tacoma, we had a lot of fun. 255 00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:16,934 {\an8}My brother was two years older and he and Ted were the same age. 256 00:16:18,143 --> 00:16:22,189 We had about a four-block area of kids that played together. 257 00:16:22,272 --> 00:16:25,985 And we had that whole wooded area to play in. 258 00:16:26,402 --> 00:16:29,571 [Bundy] I never lacked playmates in those days. 259 00:16:29,905 --> 00:16:33,200 There were always more than enough kids around to do something with. 260 00:16:33,283 --> 00:16:34,785 They seemed to be everywhere. 261 00:16:35,244 --> 00:16:38,789 There was a distinct difference between the haves and have-nots 262 00:16:38,872 --> 00:16:39,915 in the neighborhood, 263 00:16:39,999 --> 00:16:43,377 and Ted's family were in the have-not group. 264 00:16:45,004 --> 00:16:50,050 But they could have not been more Beaver Cleaver if they tried. 265 00:16:50,843 --> 00:16:53,595 His mom worked as a secretary. 266 00:16:54,430 --> 00:16:56,348 Mr. Bundy was a really good dad. 267 00:16:56,849 --> 00:17:00,853 His mom and dad took him to church every Sunday. 268 00:17:00,936 --> 00:17:03,647 They were involved in Cub Scouts and Brownies 269 00:17:03,731 --> 00:17:05,733 and Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts, and... 270 00:17:06,233 --> 00:17:08,318 sent the kids to church camps. 271 00:17:08,402 --> 00:17:11,530 They were very, very involved parents. 272 00:17:13,282 --> 00:17:15,701 But he was just different. 273 00:17:17,661 --> 00:17:21,457 He had a big problem for a long time. He had a horrible speech impediment. 274 00:17:21,540 --> 00:17:23,250 So he was teased a lot. 275 00:17:25,294 --> 00:17:27,046 He just didn't fit in. 276 00:17:28,047 --> 00:17:29,673 Even up at Boy Scout camp, 277 00:17:29,757 --> 00:17:32,509 he just couldn't quite get the hang of doing 278 00:17:32,593 --> 00:17:34,595 the things the other kids were doing. 279 00:17:35,387 --> 00:17:37,222 Couldn't tie the knots right. 280 00:17:37,639 --> 00:17:39,349 Couldn't shoot the gun right. 281 00:17:40,142 --> 00:17:41,643 Couldn't win the races. 282 00:17:42,853 --> 00:17:45,022 And he had a temper. 283 00:17:45,856 --> 00:17:47,024 He liked to scare people. 284 00:17:48,734 --> 00:17:52,362 He liked building tiger traps out in the woods. 285 00:17:53,739 --> 00:17:55,699 They built a bit pit in the ground 286 00:17:55,783 --> 00:17:58,452 and put sharpened sticks down in it, 287 00:17:58,535 --> 00:18:01,371 then covered the top of it up with vegetation. 288 00:18:01,997 --> 00:18:03,457 And one little girl 289 00:18:04,124 --> 00:18:06,460 went over the top of one of Ted's tiger traps 290 00:18:06,543 --> 00:18:08,962 and got the whole side of her leg... 291 00:18:09,546 --> 00:18:14,384 slit open with the sharpened point of the stick that she landed on. 292 00:18:17,429 --> 00:18:18,722 In high school, 293 00:18:19,098 --> 00:18:21,683 he wanted to be something he wasn't. 294 00:18:21,767 --> 00:18:23,435 He was going to be president. 295 00:18:23,519 --> 00:18:25,646 He was going to show the world that... 296 00:18:26,021 --> 00:18:28,398 Ted was the one to be dealt with, 297 00:18:28,482 --> 00:18:30,984 and it was a lot of blowhard talk. 298 00:18:31,527 --> 00:18:34,863 [Bundy] I did well in academics, I ran for high school office. 299 00:18:34,947 --> 00:18:37,366 Most of my close friends, we would play football 300 00:18:37,449 --> 00:18:40,244 I went out for the track team, went skiing every weekend. 301 00:18:40,327 --> 00:18:41,703 I was one of the boys. 302 00:18:42,621 --> 00:18:45,624 [Holt] He tried to fool you and lie to you. 303 00:18:45,707 --> 00:18:47,417 He wasn't athletic. 304 00:18:47,501 --> 00:18:51,255 He wanted to be the number one in class, but he wasn't. 305 00:18:51,797 --> 00:18:55,175 He started being more alone. 306 00:18:55,759 --> 00:18:58,679 [Bundy] Some people perceived me as being shy and introverted. 307 00:18:58,762 --> 00:19:03,475 I didn't go to dances, I didn't go on the beer drinking outings. 308 00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:06,311 I was a pretty-- You might call me straight, 309 00:19:06,395 --> 00:19:10,023 {\an8}-but not a social outcast in any way. -[Michaud] Mm-hmm. 310 00:19:10,566 --> 00:19:13,902 {\an8}[Holt] Nobody really got to be close to Ted. 311 00:19:13,986 --> 00:19:16,446 {\an8}I don't remember him dating anybody, 312 00:19:16,530 --> 00:19:19,700 and at the time I thought it was really terrible, 313 00:19:19,783 --> 00:19:21,410 'cause he was a good-looking guy. 314 00:19:22,077 --> 00:19:24,496 [Bundy] It wasn't that I disliked women or were afraid of them. 315 00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:26,540 It was just that I didn't seem to... 316 00:19:26,623 --> 00:19:29,626 have an inkling as to what to do about them. 317 00:19:31,044 --> 00:19:33,088 [calmly] I honestly can't say why. 318 00:19:34,673 --> 00:19:38,802 He just didn't seem to be all there, all present... 319 00:19:40,095 --> 00:19:43,348 in some way. There was just a gap in him. 320 00:19:45,934 --> 00:19:47,936 [Bundy] Everybody's fascinated 321 00:19:48,020 --> 00:19:51,398 with the notion that there is cause and effect. 322 00:19:51,815 --> 00:19:53,525 That we can put our finger on it and say, 323 00:19:53,609 --> 00:19:56,195 "Yes, his father beat him when he was a boy. 324 00:19:56,278 --> 00:19:57,863 We could see it when he was a kid." 325 00:19:58,322 --> 00:19:59,698 That's bullshit. 326 00:20:00,824 --> 00:20:02,743 There's nothing in my background 327 00:20:02,826 --> 00:20:05,329 which would lead one to believe that I was capable 328 00:20:05,412 --> 00:20:06,705 of committing murder. 329 00:20:07,831 --> 00:20:10,626 -[Michaud] Absolutely nothing? -[Bundy] Absolutely nothing. 330 00:20:32,981 --> 00:20:35,776 {\an8}[McChesney] In June of 1974, 331 00:20:36,109 --> 00:20:39,363 another young woman went missing in Seattle. 332 00:20:40,739 --> 00:20:44,326 And she had lived in the University of Washington area, 333 00:20:44,660 --> 00:20:47,788 very close to where Lynda Ann Healy had been abducted. 334 00:20:50,624 --> 00:20:53,252 {\an8}[female report] Georgann Hawkins was last seen Monday evening 335 00:20:53,335 --> 00:20:54,753 {\an8}shortly after midnight. 336 00:20:55,671 --> 00:20:58,924 She had been visiting at the Beta House and was returning to her house 337 00:20:59,007 --> 00:21:02,135 just a half block away down this alley. 338 00:21:02,219 --> 00:21:05,555 Police believe she went along this route 339 00:21:05,639 --> 00:21:07,724 and then, somewhere, she disappeared. 340 00:21:07,808 --> 00:21:10,352 Did you ever know her as the type of person that would take off 341 00:21:10,435 --> 00:21:12,479 at any time on her own and not tell anyone? 342 00:21:12,562 --> 00:21:14,773 No, I didn't, she wasn't like that at all. 343 00:21:14,856 --> 00:21:16,900 She always... She was really close to all of us, 344 00:21:16,984 --> 00:21:19,444 and anything she was gonna do, she always told us. 345 00:21:19,528 --> 00:21:22,406 Because she lived in the University of Washington area, 346 00:21:22,489 --> 00:21:24,825 where you have lots and lots of young people, 347 00:21:24,908 --> 00:21:26,743 and lots of lots of young women, 348 00:21:26,827 --> 00:21:30,831 the community began to grow uneasy about what was going on. 349 00:21:31,164 --> 00:21:33,917 {\an8}It's unreal and it's a nightmare. 350 00:21:34,001 --> 00:21:37,045 {\an8}And nothing in anybody's manual would... [chuckles] 351 00:21:37,462 --> 00:21:40,382 {\an8}it-- would prepare you for something like this. 352 00:21:40,465 --> 00:21:44,303 {\an8}Mostly they're-- they're frightened, and I-I sense a good deal of anger. 353 00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:48,181 -[reporter] Against who? -Against anyone who would feel 354 00:21:48,265 --> 00:21:51,685 they had the right to walk into the middle of a young lady's life 355 00:21:51,768 --> 00:21:53,603 and-- and disrupt it in this way. 356 00:21:56,148 --> 00:21:59,359 [McChesney] It was very obvious to me 357 00:21:59,443 --> 00:22:04,197 {\an8}that there was something really horrible, really wrong going on. 358 00:22:04,614 --> 00:22:06,700 {\an8}There's no physical evidence, except that the two girls 359 00:22:06,783 --> 00:22:08,827 {\an8}were very similar type girls. They're very dependable. 360 00:22:08,910 --> 00:22:11,371 {\an8}They told people where they were going and when they were coming back, 361 00:22:11,997 --> 00:22:14,499 and that, uh, they just didn't do things of this nature. 362 00:22:14,583 --> 00:22:16,501 And they're within two blocks of each other. 363 00:22:16,585 --> 00:22:19,254 Police say they will return to this alley at night 364 00:22:19,338 --> 00:22:21,548 to determine the lighting of the area. 365 00:22:21,631 --> 00:22:24,718 Meanwhile, they're asking the girls to stay out of the alleys 366 00:22:24,801 --> 00:22:27,220 and travel in groups of twos or threes 367 00:22:27,304 --> 00:22:29,056 and use only the front doors. 368 00:22:30,474 --> 00:22:33,393 [Michaud] The disappearance of Georgann Hawkins 369 00:22:33,477 --> 00:22:36,021 is an interesting case. 370 00:22:36,104 --> 00:22:39,691 for the fact there's no evidence, at all. 371 00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:43,528 She might be an interesting one to discuss, what do you think? 372 00:22:44,029 --> 00:22:45,739 Well, I don't know about, uh... 373 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,909 the Hawkins case, 374 00:22:49,284 --> 00:22:52,329 from what I know about it, it is unusual. 375 00:22:52,746 --> 00:22:54,206 because she was in a neighborhood 376 00:22:54,289 --> 00:22:56,583 where she would have a lot of acquaintances 377 00:22:56,666 --> 00:22:58,502 but I don't know. 378 00:23:00,337 --> 00:23:02,297 [Michaud] Guiding the conversations with Ted 379 00:23:02,381 --> 00:23:03,507 was a challenge. 380 00:23:04,007 --> 00:23:08,595 I started trying to push him into more substantive areas and... 381 00:23:08,970 --> 00:23:10,514 he just kept bobbing and weaving. 382 00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:15,143 He wanted to talk about everything but the cases against him. 383 00:23:17,104 --> 00:23:19,439 He told me that when he graduated from high school, 384 00:23:19,523 --> 00:23:21,733 he went to the University of Washington. 385 00:23:31,118 --> 00:23:34,621 [Bundy] At the University of Washington, I was a nice, presentable, 386 00:23:34,704 --> 00:23:35,831 affable young person. 387 00:23:37,999 --> 00:23:43,171 I compensated a lot for what I consider to be my most vulnerable aspect, 388 00:23:43,255 --> 00:23:44,464 my introversion, 389 00:23:44,548 --> 00:23:49,344 by being seemingly aloof and arrogant and intellectual 390 00:23:49,428 --> 00:23:53,056 but nice and tolerant and that kind of stuff. 391 00:23:53,557 --> 00:23:56,268 I had to sit down one night and say, "This is what I want to be." 392 00:23:58,645 --> 00:23:59,855 [Michaud] At the university, 393 00:23:59,938 --> 00:24:02,774 he got an undergraduate degree in psychology 394 00:24:03,066 --> 00:24:06,069 and also met this tall, attractive, 395 00:24:06,153 --> 00:24:08,655 wealthy young woman from California... 396 00:24:09,531 --> 00:24:12,451 and for a while caught her attention. 397 00:24:13,410 --> 00:24:15,412 [Bundy] The relationship I had with Diane 398 00:24:15,745 --> 00:24:18,248 had a lasting impact on me. 399 00:24:18,832 --> 00:24:25,172 She's a beautiful dresser, beautiful girl. Very personable. Nice car, great parents. 400 00:24:25,255 --> 00:24:26,339 So, you know, 401 00:24:26,882 --> 00:24:31,720 for the first-time girlfriend, really that was not too bad. 402 00:24:32,804 --> 00:24:35,932 We spent a lot of time driving around in her car. 403 00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:38,643 You know, making out in the car. 404 00:24:39,436 --> 00:24:41,771 Mumbled sweet nothings into each other's ears 405 00:24:41,855 --> 00:24:44,024 and told each other how much we loved each other. 406 00:24:45,108 --> 00:24:51,031 And she inspired me to look at myself and become something more. 407 00:24:51,948 --> 00:24:54,493 [Michaud] He decided that he wanted to go into politics 408 00:24:54,576 --> 00:24:57,496 and he was a straightforward, clean-cut, foursquare 409 00:24:57,579 --> 00:24:59,581 Richard-Nixon Republican. 410 00:25:01,291 --> 00:25:03,126 {\an8}[crowd cheering] 411 00:25:07,881 --> 00:25:11,092 [Nixon] Four years ago, crime was rising all over America. 412 00:25:11,718 --> 00:25:13,929 I pledge to stop the rise in crime. 413 00:25:17,057 --> 00:25:20,268 [Bundy] I've always been anti-union, anti-boycott. 414 00:25:20,352 --> 00:25:23,271 I guess that kind of labels me as somewhat of a conservative. 415 00:25:25,023 --> 00:25:28,777 [Michaud] The anti-war movement and the liberal agenda offended him. 416 00:25:28,860 --> 00:25:31,488 [Bundy] I just wasn't too fond of criminal conduct 417 00:25:31,571 --> 00:25:35,283 and using anti-war movements as a haven for... 418 00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:41,122 for delinquents who liked to feel that they were immune from the law. 419 00:25:41,206 --> 00:25:44,084 I did speak out against these radical socialist types 420 00:25:44,167 --> 00:25:46,878 who were just all for trashing the buildings, 421 00:25:46,962 --> 00:25:48,672 and destroying the university. 422 00:25:53,218 --> 00:25:54,844 [man] When I first met Ted, 423 00:25:54,928 --> 00:25:58,932 {\an8}he was doing work for the state Republican Party at that time 424 00:25:59,391 --> 00:26:00,642 in Seattle. 425 00:26:01,017 --> 00:26:03,478 I got a job working for Republican governor 426 00:26:03,562 --> 00:26:05,647 Dan Evans' campaign for reelection. 427 00:26:05,730 --> 00:26:10,277 And Ted volunteered to come on and work with us. 428 00:26:12,654 --> 00:26:14,322 Our friendship grew from there. 429 00:26:15,198 --> 00:26:16,616 He was a very nice person. 430 00:26:17,117 --> 00:26:19,953 He was the kind of guy you'd want your sister to marry. 431 00:26:23,665 --> 00:26:26,167 [Michaud] One of the things Ted liked about politics 432 00:26:26,251 --> 00:26:28,628 is that politicians are all about image. 433 00:26:28,712 --> 00:26:31,673 They're about selling something to do the public. 434 00:26:32,007 --> 00:26:34,509 That's perfect for him, 'cause he doesn't have to be real. 435 00:26:34,593 --> 00:26:36,344 [Bundy] The reason I love politics 436 00:26:36,428 --> 00:26:38,888 and was just drawn to it from the very beginning 437 00:26:38,972 --> 00:26:42,183 was because here was something which allowed me 438 00:26:42,267 --> 00:26:45,020 to utilize my natural talent in politics 439 00:26:45,103 --> 00:26:47,188 and also my assertiveness. 440 00:26:47,272 --> 00:26:49,733 [Vortman] Ted always fit in, wherever he was at. 441 00:26:50,317 --> 00:26:52,819 We would go to functions 442 00:26:53,111 --> 00:26:55,697 where there'd be some very influential people there. 443 00:26:56,281 --> 00:26:59,534 And, uh, Ted could always strike up a dialogue. 444 00:27:00,243 --> 00:27:02,037 These people accepted him. 445 00:27:02,704 --> 00:27:05,498 [Bundy] And a social life. I mean, the social life came with it. 446 00:27:05,582 --> 00:27:08,418 You were set, you know, you went out to dinner with people 447 00:27:08,501 --> 00:27:10,754 and they invited you to dinner, this is where they were, 448 00:27:10,837 --> 00:27:12,797 they took you to drinks, and they... 449 00:27:12,881 --> 00:27:17,302 And there I was, a life that had been missing for me. 450 00:27:17,385 --> 00:27:20,138 During that campaign I got laid for the first time. 451 00:27:20,221 --> 00:27:22,557 I got laid in Walla Walla. 452 00:27:23,141 --> 00:27:25,852 [Vortman] Ted's job with the governor's campaign 453 00:27:25,935 --> 00:27:29,939 was to attend all of the events that Rosellini had-- 454 00:27:30,023 --> 00:27:33,360 the other side, a democrat running against Governor Evans-- 455 00:27:33,860 --> 00:27:37,405 and write down what Rosellini said to use it against him. 456 00:27:38,490 --> 00:27:41,284 [Michaud] Ted saw himself as something more 457 00:27:41,368 --> 00:27:44,954 than just another guy who was just working on the campaign. 458 00:27:45,038 --> 00:27:47,582 [newsman] An official for the Republican gubernatorial candidate 459 00:27:47,666 --> 00:27:49,876 {\an8}was accused of political spying. 460 00:27:49,959 --> 00:27:52,337 {\an8}It's hard for me to believe that what I did is newsworthy. 461 00:27:52,420 --> 00:27:54,756 {\an8}My part in the campaign was so insignificant, 462 00:27:54,839 --> 00:27:57,759 {\an8}I'm embarrassed that I should be getting this publicity from it. 463 00:27:57,842 --> 00:27:59,135 Really embarrassed. 464 00:27:59,219 --> 00:28:00,178 [laughs] 465 00:28:00,261 --> 00:28:04,974 [Michaud] He affected humility at it, that he was just another little cog. 466 00:28:05,058 --> 00:28:07,519 But he, in fact, loved to be in the center of attention. 467 00:28:09,479 --> 00:28:12,399 [Vortman] Ted had aspirations to be affluent 468 00:28:12,482 --> 00:28:14,609 and recognized and looked up to. 469 00:28:15,276 --> 00:28:18,238 I did meet his girlfriend from California. 470 00:28:18,321 --> 00:28:19,656 She was a very classy person. 471 00:28:21,282 --> 00:28:25,328 And Ted wanted to be in the upper class. 472 00:28:27,455 --> 00:28:28,915 I think he looked up to me. 473 00:28:29,457 --> 00:28:32,293 I was like the big brother, the older brother. 474 00:28:32,377 --> 00:28:34,045 And we have the same interests. 475 00:28:34,671 --> 00:28:36,673 He enjoyed cooking and eating. 476 00:28:36,756 --> 00:28:38,758 I like to cook. That's sort of my hobby. 477 00:28:39,634 --> 00:28:40,719 [Bundy] When I met Marlin, 478 00:28:40,802 --> 00:28:43,888 I was attracted to him because his wife could cook good sushi. 479 00:28:44,347 --> 00:28:47,475 And, uh, they were very nice people. 480 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,353 [Vortman] Ted liked my Volkswagen. 481 00:28:51,187 --> 00:28:53,606 He wanted a Volkswagen just like mine. 482 00:28:55,150 --> 00:28:59,195 And I remember he liked that it had a grab bar up here. 483 00:29:00,447 --> 00:29:02,532 He seemed intrigued by that. 484 00:29:03,658 --> 00:29:05,827 And then he got one just like mine, 485 00:29:05,910 --> 00:29:07,746 I guess, same color and everything. 486 00:29:08,830 --> 00:29:11,207 And I was going to law school 487 00:29:11,291 --> 00:29:14,753 and Ted decided he was gonna go out to law school too. 488 00:29:22,552 --> 00:29:25,638 [Michaud] After he graduated from the University of Washington, 489 00:29:25,722 --> 00:29:27,974 Ted applied to a number of law schools, 490 00:29:28,641 --> 00:29:32,353 but he was devastated when his LSATs came back 491 00:29:32,437 --> 00:29:35,064 and he was mediocre. They weren't very good at all. 492 00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:38,318 So, he was not going to get into a great law school. 493 00:29:38,610 --> 00:29:42,822 And he goes to the University of Puget Sound Law School, night school. 494 00:29:43,907 --> 00:29:45,575 [Bundy] I felt like I'd failed, 495 00:29:45,992 --> 00:29:50,371 not only myself but even my teachers and instructors at the university. 496 00:29:50,747 --> 00:29:52,749 [Michaud] And he's bitterly disappointed, 497 00:29:52,832 --> 00:29:56,920 because it lacks any kind of mahogany and tweed that he had in mind. 498 00:29:57,295 --> 00:29:58,797 And it was a miserable year for him. 499 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,177 [Bundy] I was just absolutely out of control of my life. 500 00:30:04,803 --> 00:30:08,097 I didn't know what I was going to do, didn't even know where I was gonna live. 501 00:30:08,181 --> 00:30:10,809 Didn't even know how I was gonna support myself. 502 00:30:12,852 --> 00:30:15,772 [Michaud] And his relationship with Diane falls apart. 503 00:30:16,523 --> 00:30:18,650 She was frankly more woman than he could handle. 504 00:30:19,484 --> 00:30:21,986 He didn't have any money, and that kind of opened up 505 00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:23,822 a lot of the old self-doubt. 506 00:30:24,155 --> 00:30:27,200 [Bundy] I experienced any number of insecurities with Diane. 507 00:30:27,867 --> 00:30:31,496 There were occasions when I felt that she expected a great deal more 508 00:30:31,579 --> 00:30:34,332 from me than I was really capable of giving. 509 00:30:34,415 --> 00:30:40,088 I was not in any position to take her out and squire her around, uh... 510 00:30:40,171 --> 00:30:42,423 in the manner in which we was accustomed. 511 00:30:42,507 --> 00:30:45,677 But-- Or buy her clothing or, you know... 512 00:30:46,803 --> 00:30:49,764 I think I was coming apart at the seams. 513 00:30:49,848 --> 00:30:52,725 Maybe she saw it and maybe didn't understand, you know, 514 00:30:52,809 --> 00:30:54,102 what I was going through. 515 00:30:55,478 --> 00:30:59,107 Throughout the summer, Diane and I corresponded less and less. 516 00:30:59,190 --> 00:31:01,609 And then Diane stopped writing, and... 517 00:31:01,985 --> 00:31:05,321 and I started to get fearful about what she was up to. 518 00:31:06,322 --> 00:31:08,658 I had this overwhelming feeling of rejection 519 00:31:08,741 --> 00:31:10,493 that stemmed not just her, but... 520 00:31:11,411 --> 00:31:12,495 everything. 521 00:31:13,371 --> 00:31:15,957 The tail end of that summer is really a blank, 522 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,876 I mean, it was a nightmare for me. 523 00:31:19,043 --> 00:31:21,462 In there somewhere was a desire to... 524 00:31:22,255 --> 00:31:24,591 have some sort of revenge on Diane. 525 00:31:26,259 --> 00:31:30,013 But toward the end of the summer, I'm serious, I just-- It's blank. 526 00:31:31,097 --> 00:31:32,640 I don't know what the hell I did. 527 00:31:37,770 --> 00:31:39,689 [male reporter] From January to June of this year, 528 00:31:39,772 --> 00:31:42,734 The King County area was engulfed in a wave of fear 529 00:31:42,817 --> 00:31:45,778 as young women vanished with alarming regularity. 530 00:31:45,862 --> 00:31:49,157 21-year-old Lynda Ann Healy was the first to disappear. 531 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,119 Georgann Hawkins also disappeared from the University of Washington campus. 532 00:31:54,746 --> 00:31:57,415 [Michaud] When Lynda Healy and Georgann Hawkins disappeared 533 00:31:57,498 --> 00:31:59,042 within the city of Seattle, 534 00:31:59,334 --> 00:32:01,711 they were missing persons cases, they were not murders. 535 00:32:01,794 --> 00:32:05,131 They just have gone. There was no region-wide panic... 536 00:32:05,715 --> 00:32:07,759 until word spread that four other women 537 00:32:07,842 --> 00:32:10,762 had also disappeared from other jurisdictions, 538 00:32:10,845 --> 00:32:14,599 all around Western Washington and into Northern Oregon. 539 00:32:15,391 --> 00:32:17,852 [male reporter] Nearly every month, in and around Seattle, 540 00:32:17,936 --> 00:32:19,854 a young woman disappeared. 541 00:32:20,271 --> 00:32:21,898 {\an8}[male reporter #2] Gail Manson disappeared 542 00:32:21,981 --> 00:32:24,651 {\an8}from The Evergreen State College campus near Olympia. 543 00:32:24,734 --> 00:32:27,236 {\an8}Susan Rancourt disappeared from the campus 544 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,864 {\an8}of central Washington State College in Ellensburg. 545 00:32:30,281 --> 00:32:32,241 {\an8}Roberta Kathleen Parks disappeared 546 00:32:32,325 --> 00:32:35,203 {\an8}from the Oregon State University campus at Corvallis. 547 00:32:35,286 --> 00:32:40,291 {\an8}22-year-old Brenda Ball of Seattle was last seen at a tavern in Burien. 548 00:32:41,209 --> 00:32:43,586 There were six unsolved disappearances here 549 00:32:43,670 --> 00:32:45,129 in less than six months. 550 00:32:51,094 --> 00:32:54,555 [man] When the series of girls were reported missing, 551 00:32:54,973 --> 00:32:56,641 terror gripped Seattle. 552 00:32:59,936 --> 00:33:02,021 I was a reporter for KJR Radio 553 00:33:02,563 --> 00:33:05,441 {\an8}and the desperation in Seattle was crazy. 554 00:33:05,525 --> 00:33:07,193 {\an8}The people were frightened to death. 555 00:33:07,402 --> 00:33:10,989 {\an8}We had started, at KJR, numbering the women. 556 00:33:11,072 --> 00:33:13,491 {\an8}"Number 3, number 4, number 5 has disappeared." 557 00:33:13,574 --> 00:33:14,450 {\an8}"Number 6..." 558 00:33:15,952 --> 00:33:18,746 {\an8}Women were disappearing, and my brother had sent me 559 00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:20,915 the clippings from the paper. 560 00:33:20,999 --> 00:33:23,710 It just made me sick. 561 00:33:24,460 --> 00:33:25,586 [Vortman] It was on the news. 562 00:33:25,670 --> 00:33:29,173 There were a bunch of young women missing in the Seattle area. 563 00:33:29,257 --> 00:33:31,759 I was shocked. I couldn't believe it. 564 00:33:32,051 --> 00:33:34,053 {\an8}They just vanish for no apparent reason. 565 00:33:34,137 --> 00:33:37,598 {\an8}We are pretty sure that there is probably foul play 566 00:33:37,682 --> 00:33:38,975 {\an8}some way or another. 567 00:33:39,058 --> 00:33:42,311 {\an8}And we feel that we haven't come to the end of our line here, 568 00:33:42,395 --> 00:33:46,024 {\an8}that there's a good possibility that this could happen again. 569 00:33:47,567 --> 00:33:49,277 [Lucas] It was an emotional time. 570 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,738 Behavior was changed. A lot of behavior changed. 571 00:33:52,113 --> 00:33:55,867 There had been young men, young women hitchhiking on every street corner. 572 00:33:55,950 --> 00:33:57,618 And the hitchhiking stopped. 573 00:33:58,077 --> 00:33:59,120 Just like that. 574 00:33:59,203 --> 00:34:02,165 {\an8}We just want to caution the young women of our community 575 00:34:02,248 --> 00:34:05,084 {\an8}to be overly cautious at this time. 576 00:34:08,588 --> 00:34:11,424 [McChesney] As a woman, and a detective, 577 00:34:11,507 --> 00:34:14,635 it was not lost on me that the victim pool was.... 578 00:34:15,762 --> 00:34:17,305 kind of like me... 579 00:34:17,764 --> 00:34:20,349 in the sense of age, college-educated. 580 00:34:20,683 --> 00:34:25,730 And for most of the women that I knew, they were very careful about... 581 00:34:25,813 --> 00:34:30,109 meeting strangers and dating and who they were dating and so forth. 582 00:34:30,193 --> 00:34:35,823 And I knew from my friends that there was apprehension and fear 583 00:34:35,907 --> 00:34:40,078 about what was going on, because we did not have a suspect. 584 00:34:40,495 --> 00:34:43,331 All the material that was coming out of the Seattle Police Department was: 585 00:34:43,414 --> 00:34:46,459 "We don't know what's going on. We don't know... 586 00:34:46,542 --> 00:34:48,795 where these girls are disappearing to. We have no suspect." 587 00:34:49,253 --> 00:34:50,963 [man] Information is coming in, but... 588 00:34:51,839 --> 00:34:54,634 {\an8}it isn't anything that we can really go on right now. 589 00:34:55,593 --> 00:34:57,178 [dogs barking] 590 00:34:58,346 --> 00:35:01,933 [Keppel] Brenda Ball was my missing person case. 591 00:35:02,350 --> 00:35:05,561 I worked very hard at trying to locate her. 592 00:35:05,978 --> 00:35:09,107 Didn't find out any information from anybody that knew anything. 593 00:35:10,108 --> 00:35:12,902 We were viewing the type of case it was 594 00:35:12,985 --> 00:35:17,073 as a killer or maybe a couple of killers. 595 00:35:17,156 --> 00:35:19,367 The term "serial killer" 596 00:35:19,826 --> 00:35:24,997 was not anywhere on anybody's register in 1970s. 597 00:35:25,540 --> 00:35:28,209 {\an8}As far as I was concerned, it was new territory. 598 00:35:28,793 --> 00:35:31,921 {\an8}We didn't know what was going on at all. 599 00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:35,967 {\an8}[Bundy] The record-keeping operation 600 00:35:36,050 --> 00:35:39,679 {\an8}of the King County police agencies in general was just horrendous. 601 00:35:40,638 --> 00:35:43,391 {\an8}I had this connection with law enforcement there. 602 00:35:43,474 --> 00:35:45,810 {\an8}I worked for the Seattle Crime Commission. 603 00:35:47,186 --> 00:35:49,814 {\an8}I did some work on this crimes against women... 604 00:35:49,897 --> 00:35:52,024 {\an8}uh, issue, particularly rape... 605 00:35:52,942 --> 00:35:55,069 {\an8}to study this and make some suggestions 606 00:35:55,153 --> 00:35:57,780 {\an8}to the Seattle police on how they can prevent rape. 607 00:35:58,197 --> 00:36:00,950 {\an8}[Michaud] A year or so before the women started disappearing, 608 00:36:01,033 --> 00:36:05,204 Ted had a brief job working for the Seattle Crime Commission. 609 00:36:06,164 --> 00:36:10,334 It gave him access to a lot of crime statistics, 610 00:36:10,751 --> 00:36:12,920 and he saw what the police did and what the police did not do. 611 00:36:13,671 --> 00:36:17,383 And he saw all sorts of places where somebody who was smart enough 612 00:36:17,466 --> 00:36:21,262 could take advantage of the chaos and the lack of consistency 613 00:36:21,345 --> 00:36:23,764 from one jurisdiction to another. 614 00:36:25,266 --> 00:36:27,685 [Bundy] What I discovered, the discovery I made 615 00:36:27,768 --> 00:36:29,979 was that they had well-intentioned people, 616 00:36:30,062 --> 00:36:32,064 but they didn't know what they should do. 617 00:36:34,108 --> 00:36:36,527 [Lucas] Various police departments weren't sharing information 618 00:36:36,611 --> 00:36:38,321 across jurisdictional lines. 619 00:36:38,696 --> 00:36:42,533 This became blatantly obvious fairly early on in the series of murders. 620 00:36:42,617 --> 00:36:45,036 I'd call the police department and say, "How many girls are you missing?" 621 00:36:45,661 --> 00:36:48,039 "We have one missing here." And I said, "How many in Seattle?" 622 00:36:48,122 --> 00:36:49,290 "I don't know." 623 00:36:50,249 --> 00:36:53,211 There were wild investigative leads that went all over the place. 624 00:36:54,295 --> 00:36:57,256 The Captain of Homicide in Seattle, Herbs Swinley, 625 00:36:57,340 --> 00:37:00,134 would call me into his office sometimes to brainstorm. 626 00:37:00,551 --> 00:37:02,803 One day, I walked into his office and up on the chalkboard, 627 00:37:02,887 --> 00:37:04,388 he had the names of... 628 00:37:04,805 --> 00:37:06,015 [exhales] 629 00:37:06,098 --> 00:37:08,601 eight or ten young women. 630 00:37:09,101 --> 00:37:10,311 And I said, "What's that list?" 631 00:37:10,394 --> 00:37:12,355 And he said, "I was gonna ask you to look at it." 632 00:37:13,105 --> 00:37:16,651 And in between each of the names, he had the numbers 23, 23, 633 00:37:16,734 --> 00:37:18,945 36, 36, 23, 634 00:37:19,028 --> 00:37:20,780 23, 36, 36. 635 00:37:21,197 --> 00:37:23,866 I said, "I don't know, what's that all about?" 636 00:37:23,950 --> 00:37:27,328 And he said, "That's the number of days between the disappearances." 637 00:37:27,411 --> 00:37:28,704 He said: "You see a pattern?" 638 00:37:30,122 --> 00:37:32,458 He was researching various religious cults 639 00:37:32,541 --> 00:37:36,712 to try to attach it to various kinds of occult calendars, and... 640 00:37:37,171 --> 00:37:40,258 witchcraft, Satanism, human sacrifices. 641 00:37:41,008 --> 00:37:43,511 They had no hard evidence. 642 00:37:43,594 --> 00:37:45,805 No descriptions of potential suspects. 643 00:37:46,430 --> 00:37:47,390 They were desperate. 644 00:37:59,110 --> 00:38:02,822 [Aynesworth] While Stephen was meeting with Ted in prison, 645 00:38:03,572 --> 00:38:05,366 I was out in the Northwest 646 00:38:05,449 --> 00:38:09,453 {\an8}reinvestigating all the murders that he was suspected of. 647 00:38:10,997 --> 00:38:12,915 Six years after these murders, 648 00:38:12,999 --> 00:38:15,501 there really wasn't any real strong evidence 649 00:38:15,584 --> 00:38:17,169 in any of the cases. 650 00:38:19,046 --> 00:38:23,259 I met with the local police, what witnesses there were of the crimes, 651 00:38:24,135 --> 00:38:25,261 their families 652 00:38:25,636 --> 00:38:28,097 {\an8}Well, we received a phone call from the university 653 00:38:28,180 --> 00:38:32,143 {\an8}that my daughter was missing. That she hadn't come home. 654 00:38:32,685 --> 00:38:35,938 She was a straight-A student, the type of child who just... 655 00:38:36,022 --> 00:38:38,107 wouldn't normally do those kinds of things. 656 00:38:38,733 --> 00:38:40,818 Those things don't happen to you. 657 00:38:40,901 --> 00:38:42,445 They happen to everybody else. 658 00:38:43,279 --> 00:38:46,365 You read about in the paper. They happen in New York City. 659 00:38:46,449 --> 00:38:49,327 They don't happen in Ellensburg, Washington. 660 00:38:50,536 --> 00:38:53,581 It was just a hard, tiresome job 661 00:38:53,664 --> 00:38:57,209 for many weeks and it was very-- very hurtful too, 662 00:38:57,293 --> 00:38:59,837 because some of these families 663 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:02,715 never found their daughters. 664 00:39:03,466 --> 00:39:06,177 I had two teenage daughters at the time. 665 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,220 And I just envisioned... 666 00:39:09,013 --> 00:39:11,807 what had happened to some of these girls. It was horrible. 667 00:39:15,644 --> 00:39:19,982 [Bundy] Why and how an individual would select women as victims 668 00:39:20,066 --> 00:39:24,737 of a brutal crime is not entirely clear to me. 669 00:39:26,906 --> 00:39:29,575 I've always preferred women to men. 670 00:39:30,034 --> 00:39:32,078 Um, I probably have 671 00:39:32,161 --> 00:39:34,080 60% women friends, 672 00:39:34,163 --> 00:39:37,833 close to 40% men friends. It's always been divided that way. 673 00:39:37,917 --> 00:39:39,126 I enjoy women. 674 00:39:43,714 --> 00:39:46,300 [Michaud] Ted presented himself as just a Boy Scout. 675 00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:48,886 Boyishly handsome, smooth-talking, 676 00:39:49,261 --> 00:39:50,971 and people really fell for him. 677 00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:56,560 He met a woman named Liz at a bar and she fell madly in love with him. 678 00:39:56,644 --> 00:40:01,065 Liz became his main squeeze, and they almost got married. 679 00:40:03,150 --> 00:40:06,779 [Bundy] I loved her so much it. It was destabilizing. 680 00:40:08,531 --> 00:40:11,867 She was from a Mormon family. She was from a wealthy background. 681 00:40:12,576 --> 00:40:14,120 She was somewhat meek. 682 00:40:15,204 --> 00:40:19,250 Liz had a child that she had to raise alone for a time. 683 00:40:19,959 --> 00:40:21,127 [Michaud] She had a daughter, 684 00:40:21,585 --> 00:40:24,922 and they formed this kind of little family for a while. 685 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,259 [Bundy] She was new, and this was a whole new... 686 00:40:28,342 --> 00:40:29,176 [clears throat] 687 00:40:29,260 --> 00:40:32,179 ...dimension to living that I had never seen before. 688 00:40:32,555 --> 00:40:34,306 [Michaud] But they had issues. 689 00:40:35,015 --> 00:40:37,810 [Bundy] I felt such a strong love for her. 690 00:40:37,893 --> 00:40:40,688 But we didn't have a lot of interests in common-- 691 00:40:40,771 --> 00:40:44,066 Like, politics was something I don't think we had in common. 692 00:40:44,859 --> 00:40:47,319 She liked to read a lot, I wasn't into reading. 693 00:40:47,403 --> 00:40:49,071 I wasted a lot of time. 694 00:40:49,822 --> 00:40:52,533 And the other problems that I would experience, like... 695 00:40:52,616 --> 00:40:57,204 not being able to make my genuine feelings for her come out, 696 00:40:57,746 --> 00:41:01,041 whether it's fixing a special dinner or going out 697 00:41:01,125 --> 00:41:04,503 or bringing flowers or taking out the garbage, 698 00:41:04,587 --> 00:41:06,964 changing the sheets, or doing the laundry. 699 00:41:07,047 --> 00:41:10,301 On occasion I would experience this fit of, you know... 700 00:41:11,302 --> 00:41:14,180 guilt as it were, and I would vacuum, and I would straighten up 701 00:41:14,263 --> 00:41:16,974 and wash dishes or fix dinner or do something. 702 00:41:18,350 --> 00:41:21,437 The area where I really failed would be 703 00:41:21,770 --> 00:41:24,315 not opening up my whole life to her. 704 00:41:25,357 --> 00:41:26,650 Don't know what I was hiding. 705 00:41:28,319 --> 00:41:30,488 Maybe I was just trying to preserve the, uh, 706 00:41:30,571 --> 00:41:34,575 Ted Bundy devil-may-care attractive bachelor image. 707 00:41:35,326 --> 00:41:36,243 [gunshot] 708 00:41:37,286 --> 00:41:39,121 I was terribly jealous of her. 709 00:41:40,331 --> 00:41:43,667 I used to agonize about losing her. 710 00:41:45,085 --> 00:41:47,379 I used to just torture myself. 711 00:41:50,007 --> 00:41:52,176 And I did a lot of dumb things. 712 00:42:06,815 --> 00:42:08,817 {\an8}[indistinct chatter] 713 00:42:13,781 --> 00:42:15,783 [band playing upbeat song] 714 00:42:24,542 --> 00:42:26,669 [McChesney] It was a beautiful Sunday afternoon. 715 00:42:31,298 --> 00:42:34,093 There were thousands of people at the park. 716 00:42:38,138 --> 00:42:41,183 There were all kinds of events going on. 717 00:42:43,978 --> 00:42:45,813 Lots and lots of young people. 718 00:42:46,981 --> 00:42:48,607 Lots and lots of young women... 719 00:42:50,734 --> 00:42:52,778 in a place where they feel safe. 720 00:42:55,781 --> 00:42:57,950 And then... 721 00:42:58,409 --> 00:42:59,785 at some point that day 722 00:43:00,744 --> 00:43:04,623 {\an8}two women, Denise Naslund and Janice Ott, 723 00:43:04,707 --> 00:43:07,001 disappeared from Lake Sammamish Park. 724 00:43:07,084 --> 00:43:09,086 [siren wailing] 725 00:43:14,633 --> 00:43:17,761 [Lucas] I was still at the radio station in 1974 726 00:43:17,845 --> 00:43:19,680 {\an8}when Janice Ott and Denise Naslund 727 00:43:19,763 --> 00:43:22,057 {\an8}were abducted from Lake Sammamish State Park. 728 00:43:22,141 --> 00:43:23,350 {\an8}[inhales deeply] 729 00:43:23,434 --> 00:43:27,605 [sighs] I, in fact, lived in a house just a couple miles down the road. 730 00:43:28,188 --> 00:43:31,692 So when the boss called and said, "Get over-- Get over to Lake Sammamish," 731 00:43:31,775 --> 00:43:34,236 I went over and began interviewing people from there. 732 00:43:35,112 --> 00:43:38,907 It was the first time that some really clear details came out. 733 00:43:40,826 --> 00:43:44,705 {\an8}So far we've gotten a few good leads, particularly on Janice Ott, 734 00:43:44,788 --> 00:43:46,540 {\an8}the missing girl from Issaquah. 735 00:43:46,999 --> 00:43:48,500 {\an8}As far as Denise Naslund, 736 00:43:48,584 --> 00:43:50,586 {\an8}we're still a little bit shaky on that yet. 737 00:43:53,839 --> 00:43:57,426 {\an8}[Keppel] When the girls went missing from Lake Sammamish State Park, 738 00:43:58,218 --> 00:44:00,596 {\an8}our homicide sergeant assigned 739 00:44:01,013 --> 00:44:04,516 {\an8}my partner and myself to the two cases. 740 00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:08,395 At that time, 741 00:44:08,479 --> 00:44:12,775 there were eight women who went missing in and around Seattle. 742 00:44:13,817 --> 00:44:16,570 People were pretty frightened about it. 743 00:44:17,655 --> 00:44:19,865 So we set up a task force. 744 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:22,451 Kathy McChesney was selected to come in 745 00:44:22,534 --> 00:44:28,624 because we needed a female detective to interview females. 746 00:44:29,249 --> 00:44:32,252 [McChesney] What came out of a call for information 747 00:44:32,336 --> 00:44:36,048 {\an8}was the fact that some of the witnesses at the park 748 00:44:36,131 --> 00:44:42,012 {\an8}had seen a suspect approach both of the women who went missing. 749 00:44:42,930 --> 00:44:45,349 With the disappearance of the Ott and the Naslund girls 750 00:44:45,432 --> 00:44:47,476 on the same day, from the same state park, 751 00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:50,270 came the first indications that a male subject was involved. 752 00:44:50,813 --> 00:44:52,898 There were 40,000 people out here on that day 753 00:44:52,981 --> 00:44:55,526 and some of them had been asked by a good-looking young man 754 00:44:55,609 --> 00:44:59,405 wearing an arm cast to help load his sailboat on the car 755 00:44:59,488 --> 00:45:00,989 in the parking lot beyond. 756 00:45:01,448 --> 00:45:04,952 These same witnesses provided information for a police sketch 757 00:45:05,035 --> 00:45:07,496 and recall the man with a cast had asked several young ladies 758 00:45:07,579 --> 00:45:08,706 for help that day. 759 00:45:09,790 --> 00:45:11,667 {\an8}[Keppel] We found out that Denise Naslund 760 00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:15,504 {\an8}was laying on the beach with three of her friends, 761 00:45:16,046 --> 00:45:20,676 and went back to the restroom, which was about 60 feet. 762 00:45:21,802 --> 00:45:23,637 [McChesney] And that's when this same suspect 763 00:45:23,721 --> 00:45:25,222 with his arm in a sling 764 00:45:25,305 --> 00:45:28,600 approached Denise Naslund, standing there by the restroom, 765 00:45:28,684 --> 00:45:32,896 with a similar story, and she went with him, 766 00:45:32,980 --> 00:45:36,400 we believe, willingly, to go help him. 767 00:45:36,692 --> 00:45:38,986 And then she was never seen again. 768 00:45:40,237 --> 00:45:44,616 [Keppel] Later on, Denise Naslund's mother called in. 769 00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:47,536 And I remember interviewing the mother. 770 00:45:47,911 --> 00:45:50,164 [woman] About nine o'clock that night, 771 00:45:50,622 --> 00:45:53,876 I saw that her boyfriend came up pulling in her car, 772 00:45:54,585 --> 00:45:57,296 and I knew right then there was something wrong. 773 00:45:57,379 --> 00:46:00,007 And he said, "I can't find Denise." 774 00:46:01,383 --> 00:46:03,469 All I can think about is... 775 00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:06,263 {\an8}what were her thoughts? 776 00:46:06,805 --> 00:46:08,724 {\an8}How long did she suffer? 777 00:46:11,602 --> 00:46:14,271 And those thoughts are with me all the time. 778 00:46:15,939 --> 00:46:18,942 [Keppel] The same day Denise Naslund disappeared, 779 00:46:19,026 --> 00:46:23,739 {\an8}a couple of women had observed Janice Ott being approached, 780 00:46:23,822 --> 00:46:26,784 {\an8}while she was on the beach, by the suspect. 781 00:46:26,867 --> 00:46:31,497 Witnesses told us that the suspect was seen to be driving 782 00:46:31,580 --> 00:46:35,334 a light brown or a tan Volkswagen bug. 783 00:46:36,376 --> 00:46:38,796 [Keppel] When Janice got up from the beach 784 00:46:38,879 --> 00:46:40,547 to go to the car with him, 785 00:46:41,048 --> 00:46:45,385 she was wheeling along her ten-speed yello Tiger bike, 786 00:46:45,469 --> 00:46:49,681 and then those girls overheard them introduce each other. 787 00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:52,017 She said, "Hi, I'm Jan." 788 00:46:53,936 --> 00:46:56,939 And he said, "Hi, I'm Ted." 789 00:46:57,231 --> 00:46:59,817 And she was never seen again. 790 00:47:14,373 --> 00:47:16,542 [Michaud] After several weeks, 791 00:47:16,625 --> 00:47:18,710 I was not getting anywhere with Ted. 792 00:47:20,462 --> 00:47:22,005 I was getting frustrated. 793 00:47:22,422 --> 00:47:24,550 He didn't want to talk about the murders. 794 00:47:25,509 --> 00:47:28,887 {\an8}We had made a deal with our publisher 795 00:47:29,429 --> 00:47:32,432 {\an8}based on our reassurances that we were going to get 796 00:47:32,516 --> 00:47:34,184 {\an8}the real story from Ted Bundy. 797 00:47:35,561 --> 00:47:36,812 [young Michaud] I need to be reassured 798 00:47:36,895 --> 00:47:39,356 that you and I are going ahead in good faith, I guess. 799 00:47:39,940 --> 00:47:42,359 Which is, you know-- Under the terms that we agreed, 800 00:47:42,442 --> 00:47:47,531 that were what is known about the incidents themselves. 801 00:47:48,365 --> 00:47:49,366 Can you do that? 802 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,287 [Bundy] I don't-- I don't want to talk about that right now. 803 00:47:54,955 --> 00:47:57,875 -This is the defect of history. -[Michaud] Yes. 804 00:47:57,958 --> 00:48:02,004 That historians have to deal with. I guess we're all historians. 805 00:48:02,838 --> 00:48:04,464 I mean, talk about fiction. 806 00:48:04,548 --> 00:48:07,009 -That's what history is. -[Michaud] Uh-uh. 807 00:48:07,092 --> 00:48:10,053 [Bundy] You never know whether historians, 808 00:48:10,137 --> 00:48:13,098 for one reason or another, well-intentioned or not, 809 00:48:13,181 --> 00:48:15,851 are creating things that they wish had happened 810 00:48:15,934 --> 00:48:18,103 or thought happened or would like to have happened. 811 00:48:18,186 --> 00:48:21,607 Uh, because it satisfies their own preconception 812 00:48:21,690 --> 00:48:24,192 of what they think the history should have been. 813 00:48:29,156 --> 00:48:30,699 [Michaud] We were running out of time. 814 00:48:31,283 --> 00:48:34,036 And then I had this epiphany one night 815 00:48:34,119 --> 00:48:36,538 while I was drinking Scotch and eating cheeseburgers 816 00:48:36,622 --> 00:48:38,206 at the Holiday Inn bar, 817 00:48:38,582 --> 00:48:41,084 that there may be a different way to do this. 818 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,296 I couldn't talk to Ted person to person. 819 00:48:44,379 --> 00:48:46,506 I had to give him some kind of the veil. 820 00:48:47,132 --> 00:48:49,509 I had to get him to talk about himself... 821 00:48:50,010 --> 00:48:51,428 in the third person. 822 00:48:53,138 --> 00:48:56,099 So I contacted Hugh, who was out West. 823 00:48:58,060 --> 00:49:00,354 [Aylesworth] When Stephen came up with the idea 824 00:49:00,437 --> 00:49:03,732 to get him talking in the third person, he called me. 825 00:49:03,815 --> 00:49:06,276 I was staying in a fleabag motel. 826 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,031 And I remember that night it was snowing. It was cold as-- as all get out. 827 00:49:12,115 --> 00:49:15,035 The motel did not have a phone in the room. 828 00:49:15,744 --> 00:49:18,789 And I'm out there on a payphone outside the motel, 829 00:49:18,872 --> 00:49:21,041 talking to Stephen, and I was freezing. 830 00:49:21,124 --> 00:49:24,336 I kept trying to get off the phone, and he was excited 831 00:49:24,544 --> 00:49:28,715 and he kept saying, "We're oughta do it," and I thought it was a great idea. 832 00:49:28,799 --> 00:49:30,634 We didn't know whether it would work. 833 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,553 [Michaud] Hugh and I have our conversation. 834 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,391 And I go back to the prison the next day 835 00:49:37,474 --> 00:49:40,018 and I say, "Ted, now, we're not getting anywhere, 836 00:49:40,477 --> 00:49:41,770 but I have an idea. 837 00:49:42,354 --> 00:49:45,899 You know, Ted, you got a degree in psychology, 838 00:49:45,983 --> 00:49:48,151 so you're trained in psychology. 839 00:49:48,235 --> 00:49:51,071 You're familiar with the details of the cases. 840 00:49:51,488 --> 00:49:53,365 You certainly know what's been in the newspapers. 841 00:49:53,448 --> 00:49:55,742 You're intelligent and you're articulate. 842 00:49:56,576 --> 00:49:58,537 I think one way to get at this, 843 00:49:58,954 --> 00:50:01,456 is to turn you into an expert witness. 844 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,584 Why don't you tell me what you think happened? 845 00:50:05,502 --> 00:50:08,171 Tell me what kind of person would have done this." 846 00:50:10,716 --> 00:50:14,052 [Bundy] Well, it's not an easy question, but... [clears throat] I think we can... 847 00:50:15,012 --> 00:50:16,096 speculate. 848 00:50:17,014 --> 00:50:18,181 [Michaud] He looked at me. 849 00:50:19,057 --> 00:50:21,143 There was a brief pause. 850 00:50:22,436 --> 00:50:24,855 But then he grabbed my tape recorder... 851 00:50:26,356 --> 00:50:29,651 and he pulled it to himself and kind of cradled it 852 00:50:29,735 --> 00:50:33,655 and started talking into it as if I wasn't even in the room. 853 00:50:33,739 --> 00:50:38,535 [Bundy] We can generally describe manifestations of this condition 854 00:50:38,618 --> 00:50:42,914 of this person's being skewed toward matters of a sexual nature 855 00:50:42,998 --> 00:50:45,167 -that involve violence. -Mm-hmm. 856 00:50:45,250 --> 00:50:48,879 [Michaud] And he starts talking about how do you describe 857 00:50:48,962 --> 00:50:51,214 what's in a river, as it flows to the sea. 858 00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,051 [Bundy] You go to the mouth of any great river 859 00:50:54,134 --> 00:50:57,804 and pull out a handful of water that's flowing from it and say, 860 00:50:57,888 --> 00:50:59,473 -"Where did it come from?" -[Michaud] Mm-hmm. 861 00:50:59,556 --> 00:51:02,559 [Bundy] To trace it back, okay? And this is what we're dealing with here-- 862 00:51:02,642 --> 00:51:03,727 We're talking about 863 00:51:03,810 --> 00:51:05,479 microscopic events as it were, 864 00:51:05,562 --> 00:51:09,274 and undistinguishable, undetectable events. 865 00:51:09,357 --> 00:51:12,527 The melting of a single snowflake as it were, okay? 866 00:51:12,611 --> 00:51:17,449 The advent of Spring and the combination of other forces perhaps 867 00:51:17,532 --> 00:51:22,871 and the ultimate result that we appreciate 868 00:51:22,954 --> 00:51:24,539 -which is the river itself. -Mm-hmm. 869 00:51:24,623 --> 00:51:27,167 We're now talking about the development of... 870 00:51:27,626 --> 00:51:29,753 like, well, behavior, 871 00:51:30,712 --> 00:51:31,880 murder. 872 00:51:31,963 --> 00:51:33,465 Okay, well, what... 873 00:51:34,007 --> 00:51:36,426 caused what kinds of mental functions, 874 00:51:36,510 --> 00:51:39,721 aberrations lay at the base of it and how did they-- 875 00:51:39,805 --> 00:51:41,056 Where were they given birth? 876 00:51:41,139 --> 00:51:43,600 Where did they result? What were they the result of? 877 00:51:43,683 --> 00:51:44,893 And it's difficult... 878 00:51:45,977 --> 00:51:49,523 to trace it back and say, "This is what happened." 879 00:51:51,066 --> 00:51:54,361 [Michaud] It was like I had unlocked and avenue for him 880 00:51:54,444 --> 00:51:57,489 to finally tell this story 881 00:51:58,031 --> 00:52:01,368 without saying anything that could ever be taken to court. 882 00:52:02,244 --> 00:52:03,954 And off he went. 883 00:52:04,454 --> 00:52:07,207 [Bundy] Perhaps this person hoped that through violence, 884 00:52:07,290 --> 00:52:11,086 -through this violent series of acts-- -Mm-hmm. 885 00:52:11,962 --> 00:52:17,259 With-- With every murder leaving a person of this type hungry. 886 00:52:17,592 --> 00:52:19,427 -[Michaud] Mm-hmm. -[Bundy] Unfulfilled. 887 00:52:19,886 --> 00:52:23,974 But also leave him with the obviously irrational belief 888 00:52:24,057 --> 00:52:27,477 that he-- the next time he did it he would be fulfilled. 889 00:52:28,436 --> 00:52:30,564 And the next time he did it he would be fulfilled. 890 00:52:30,647 --> 00:52:33,024 Or the next time he did it he would be fulfilled. 890 00:52:34,305 --> 00:53:34,764 Please rate this subtitle at www.osdb.link/6zthe Help other users to choose the best subtitles