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Downloaded from
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[indistinct chatter]
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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MORGAN OLIVIA ROSE: Before,
God was a distant, unseen character.
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Through Christianity, God was made man.
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It is no surprise that 2,000 years later,
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after years of worshiping
monarchs and majesties,
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we now worship the celebrity,
the American God.
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♪ Take Me Out
by Franz Ferdinand playing ♪
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Our fair island of Manhattan
has played host
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to some glamorous women
and their husbands,
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titans of American industry,
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founders of standard oil,
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builders of railroads,
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fathers of finance, shipping, and steel.
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In the past, these heiresses operated
behind a gilded curtain,
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but today's socialites
transform themselves
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into idols to be worshiped,
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images to be consumed.
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This is American Divinity.
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♪ Take Me Out continues ♪
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♪ I say, don't you know ♪
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♪ You say you don't know ♪
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♪ I say ♪
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♪ Take me out ♪
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♪ I say you don't show ♪
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♪ Don't move, time is slow ♪
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♪ I say ♪
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♪ Take me out ♪
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♪
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Birthright guarantees access
to their world.
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If you spin the right story,
they might let you in the door.
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But at what cost?
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♪
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I think the number one thing
that an aspiring socialite has to do
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is lose weight.
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A girl who can't fit into a sample size
is basically no good to a designer.
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Hire a publicist,
even if it bankrupts your daddy.
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He'll make more money next year,
but your fame will last forever.
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[static]
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How to break into New York Society 101.
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The very first step is that
you need to have money,
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and it's a very good thing
to give some of that money away
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to the right committees.
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The history of social aspiration
in New York City, in modern times,
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can probably be traced back to the 1890s,
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the so-called Gilded Age.
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[static]
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That was a moment when
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the great industrial fortunes
were being created.
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When steel barons
and the railroad barons
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were some of the richest people
in the United States.
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Finance was coming into its own
as a huge source of wealth.
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Names like Carnegies, Mellon,
Vanderbilt, Schermerhorn, Astor
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were the great families of that time.
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[static]
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Historically, the American
social structure detested publicity
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and in order to be of social rank,
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you looked down on that kind
of vulgar self-aggrandizement.
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There's the famous expression
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that you should only have your name
in the papers three times,
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when you're born,
when you're married, and when you die.
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And it really started to change
in the 1990s
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when these younger generations
of the big families
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began to realize
that celebrity could be used
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for their own advantages.
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They were the Miller sisters,
they were the Boardman sisters,
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and these were relatively
well-behaved young women
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who led glamorous lives
and they went to nightclubs
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and were often in the gossip columns
or the social pages.
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And then like a double bombshell
dropped Paris and Nicky Hilton.
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[indistinct excited crowd chatter]
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When Paris and Nicky
arrived on the red carpet scene,
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they were an instant sensation.
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- REPORTER: Paris.
- What's up?
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BEN WIDDICOMBE:
The readers couldn't get enough of them.
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The gossip columns wanted to know more.
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[indistinct chatter]
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They loved talking to reporters.
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They made themselves
available to photographers.
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And that made them stars.
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PAPARAZZO:
Paris, give us a wave, Paris!
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You rock, girl.
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PATRICK MCMULLAN:
I like to say, I mean,
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I'm kidding, but I kind of
invented the Hilton sisters.
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I would see them
and I knew their mother, Kathy, very well
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from old days and from being around
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and she'd say, "Oh, if you
see the girls, be nice to them,"
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'cause they didn't really know anybody.
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They didn't really grow up in New York,
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so I taught them how to pose.
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PAPARAZZO:
Paris, to your left! To your left!
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KELLY CUTRONE: I saw Paris have
her first visit with André Leon Talley,
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and she stood up on a banquette
in a blue dress
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and she was like--
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I don't even know who trained her,
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but she had every fucking frame
completely thought out.
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And just in that moment, I realized
like everything's gonna change.
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[crowd cheering]
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LOLA OGUNNAIKE: In the day,
I used to be in these club streets
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and so was Paris Hilton. [laughs]
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And so, she was figuring out
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how to turn being Paris Hilton
into a business.
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She wanted to create
storylines around her,
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so she would have a best friend,
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and then she would
change the best friend.
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She would have a little Chihuahua
and then the Chihuahua would disappear.
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She was committed
to constructing a narrative around her
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that would keep people watching.
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[indistinct chatter]
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All of these girls are
Paris Hilton's child, okay?
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She laid the blueprint.
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BEN: Suddenly, the thing to be
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was to be the good-looking
daughter of great privilege.
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PHOTOGRAPHER 1:
Lauren, look [inaudible].
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PHOTOGRAPHER 2: Ivanka!
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[indistinct press chatter]
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PHOTOGRAPHER 3: Big smile right here,
big smile right here.
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LOLA: Fabiola Beracasa, she was one.
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Baby Olivia Palermo,
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she was just coming out
of high school back then.
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BEN: Another very prominent
young woman around this time
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was Casey Johnson,
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who was an heiress of
the Johnson & Johnson fortune.
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She was the absolute epitome
of a Park Avenue princess
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and she was also
Paris Hilton's best friend.
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PARIS HILTON:
I think it's pretty superficial,
but at the same time,
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our whole group is considered "it girls."
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'Cause we're beautiful, cool, and sexy.
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Everybody's an "it girl"
if you have self-confidence, right?
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Don't you agree?
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BEN:
These were gorgeous, young women
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having the time of their lives.
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♪ The Simple Life theme playing ♪
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PERSON: Isn't that Paris Hilton?
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BEN: The culture responded with shows
like The Simple Life and The City.
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NARRATOR:
In this city,
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there are the downtown girls,
like my friend, Erin,
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and then there's
the uptown crowd, like Olivia.
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She's a socialite
or as she likes to say, a social.
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And then you had Gossip Girl.
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GOSSIP GIRL:
Hey, Upper East Siders, Gossip Girl here.
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And I have the biggest news ever.
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BEN: Which further glamorized
this idea of young, Manhattan privilege
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as just the ideal for a young person.
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My God, you'll never believe
what's on Gossip Girl.
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Someone saw Serena
getting off a train at Grand Central.
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And so, of course,
women flocked to the city
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and those with means hired publicists,
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which is a necessary rung
on the social ladder in New York City.
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This led to a whole mini-trend of people
who wanted to become publicists.
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New York Magazine
did a very famous cover story
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called "Power Girls,"
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and they were positioned
as the most influential
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and fun, young women in the city.
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Publicists were at their all-time,
most powerful during that era.
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The bigger the celebrity you were,
the more publicists you had,
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and it was this wall
that you could not penetrate.
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[indistinct chatter]
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They could make or break careers.
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They could create people
out of, like, duct tape and paper clips,
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and all of a sudden, you've got a star.
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PHOTOGRAPHER:
Yeah, this way, Amanda, over here.
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[indistinct chatter]
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MORGAN:
We think we can control how we are seen,
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who looks at us,
and what stories they tell.
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But that's a lie.
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Beauty and grace can't be for everyone.
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They would lose their meaning.
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Some of us have to be the other.
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That's our role.
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[indistinct shouting]
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Money might mean freedom,
but only for some,
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because even though cash is king,
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a queen does not control her own destiny.
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PAPARAZZO 1: Paris!
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I'm not talking with anybody tonight.
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PAPARAZZO 2: We don't wanna talk.
We just wanna look at you.
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[static]
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PAPARAZZO 3:
Tinsley! Tinsley, look up.
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MORGAN: This is Tinsley.
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To her, this is success...
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PAPARAZZO 3: Tinsley.
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MORGAN:
...becoming an object to consume.
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[static]
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♪
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TV HOST: Sophisticated, stylish,
and savvy Tinsley Mortimer
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is one of the most visible faces
on New York's red-carpet social scene.
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BEN: When Tinsley Mortimer
arrived on the red carpet scene,
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she was one of the most
photogenic girls at the time
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that anyone had ever seen,
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but some people felt that
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she wasn't from the right background,
shall we say.
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She was from the South.
She had a more Southern style.
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She had that beautiful, you know,
Southern debutante charm and smile,
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uh, and I think she put the back up
of some of the other girls
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who were used to, shall we say,
a more Yankee Patrician approach.
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TINSLEY MORTIMER: I came to New York
to actually go to Columbia University,
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and I played tennis for them.
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And I had come from Lawrenceville,
which is a boarding school in New Jersey,
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and I was the captain
of the tennis team there.
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And we had, you know, tea at four
and we had, I think, you know, a chef,
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and it was all just very over the top,
particularly, being at school.
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At the time, New York felt very thriving,
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and it was just this whole crazy world
of, you know, all these charity events
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and these benefits that were over the top.
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And I remember seeing these pretty girls
and all these photographers swarmed them,
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and they were taking pictures
and it just looked like,
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"Oh, my God, this is just
so fun and glamorous."
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[indistinct party chatter]
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00:10:38,514 --> 00:10:40,516
I just remember seeing that
and thinking like,
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00:10:40,516 --> 00:10:41,517
"Oh, my God, this is fun.
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I wanna be part of this.
This looks cool."
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R. COURI HAY:
All my girls that I worked with,
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I'm very proud to have worked
with all of them,
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all really had "it" already.
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When you're called an "it girl,"
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it means you're hot, you're sexy,
you're out, you're about,
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00:10:56,073 --> 00:10:57,866
and usually means you're available.
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When I work with clients,
I ask, "What is the goal?"
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Because when you're a queenmaker,
there has to be a goal.
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00:11:04,289 --> 00:11:06,875
If you don't have a goal
and you pay me enough money,
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00:11:06,875 --> 00:11:07,918
I'll give you one.
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When I met Tinsley Mortimer,
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we were at a party,
at the Guggenheim Museum,
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00:11:12,798 --> 00:11:14,925
and I remember she was sitting outside
and she said,
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00:11:14,925 --> 00:11:17,678
"Couri, I just wanna
be a little socialite."
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00:11:17,678 --> 00:11:19,471
And I, I kinda--
I made this, like, joke to him.
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I was like,
"I just wanna be a socialite.
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00:11:21,765 --> 00:11:23,350
"I just wanna, like, I wanna, you know,
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"work on all these different
events and charities,
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00:11:25,060 --> 00:11:27,062
"and I just wanna, like, you know,
go to these fun parties
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00:11:27,062 --> 00:11:28,272
and wear glamorous dresses."
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00:11:28,272 --> 00:11:30,065
And I just sort of-- I said it like that.
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I said, "Okay."
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00:11:31,483 --> 00:11:32,901
I said, "What are you doing now?"
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00:11:32,901 --> 00:11:35,779
And she said, "I'm a publicist
working for this company."
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00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,157
TINSLEY: After Columbia, I ended up
working at Vogue Magazine .
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00:11:39,157 --> 00:11:40,909
After I left Vogue ,
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00:11:40,909 --> 00:11:43,161
I had also worked for a PR company,
Harrison & Shriftman.
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I said, "Well, when you quit your job,
come see me."
242
00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:50,544
Because I wasn't gonna make
a authentic, uh, debutante
243
00:11:50,544 --> 00:11:54,882
into a high-society girl of the moment
as a publicist.
244
00:11:54,882 --> 00:11:57,801
It just didn't work; didn't, didn't click.
245
00:11:57,801 --> 00:11:59,178
So, she quit her job.
246
00:11:59,178 --> 00:12:02,222
I put her on-- The first committee
was the Museum of Natural History.
247
00:12:02,222 --> 00:12:04,349
I was able to, uh, have some more time
248
00:12:04,349 --> 00:12:06,602
and really put my efforts
into being philanthropic
249
00:12:06,602 --> 00:12:08,020
and working on these different charities,
250
00:12:08,020 --> 00:12:11,315
and that's when it all just
sort of came a part of my world
251
00:12:11,315 --> 00:12:13,233
and the whole thing, so.
252
00:12:13,233 --> 00:12:16,695
[indistinct shouting]
253
00:12:18,238 --> 00:12:20,199
COURI:
Tinsley already had it.
254
00:12:20,199 --> 00:12:21,450
She was beautiful.
255
00:12:21,450 --> 00:12:25,746
She was brainy, well-born,
a real debutante.
256
00:12:25,746 --> 00:12:28,957
Married Topper Mortimer,
Standard Oil heir.
257
00:12:28,957 --> 00:12:33,462
So, it wasn't that difficult
to promote Tinsley as an "it girl"
258
00:12:33,462 --> 00:12:34,922
because she really was an "it girl."
259
00:12:36,798 --> 00:12:39,384
It wasn't about her blue blood,
which Tinsley had.
260
00:12:39,801 --> 00:12:43,013
It wasn't about her blonde ringlets,
which she had.
261
00:12:43,013 --> 00:12:45,516
It wasn't about her
pretty, flirty, party dresses,
262
00:12:45,516 --> 00:12:46,808
which she had.
263
00:12:46,808 --> 00:12:49,394
It was how many parties
she would go to in a night.
264
00:12:49,603 --> 00:12:50,604
It was that simple.
265
00:12:51,063 --> 00:12:54,483
PHOTOGRAPHER:
Yeah, I like that. Good. Very nice.
266
00:12:54,983 --> 00:12:57,027
BEN:
There were six parties a night
267
00:12:57,027 --> 00:12:59,196
and there was a red carpet
in front of every party.
268
00:12:59,196 --> 00:13:03,200
It's very important that they not be seen
in the same dress at, at different events,
269
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,327
even if they're an hour apart,
270
00:13:05,327 --> 00:13:07,871
because the weekly celebrity magazines
271
00:13:07,871 --> 00:13:10,499
would not run two pictures of them
in the same dress.
272
00:13:10,499 --> 00:13:14,044
COURI: It's all about being
in the right dress at the right time
273
00:13:14,044 --> 00:13:15,254
at the right party
274
00:13:15,254 --> 00:13:16,964
in front of Patrick McMullan.
275
00:13:19,132 --> 00:13:21,176
PATRICK:
A big part of that time period
276
00:13:21,718 --> 00:13:24,972
is when people realized
the power of image.
277
00:13:24,972 --> 00:13:25,889
It was exciting.
278
00:13:25,889 --> 00:13:28,642
It's exciting to see people
looking stylish where you just--
279
00:13:28,642 --> 00:13:30,310
your eyes, like, go, "Oh, wow."
280
00:13:31,979 --> 00:13:36,525
That power of image can be acquired,
but it also can be taught.
281
00:13:36,525 --> 00:13:37,818
You get a stylist
282
00:13:37,818 --> 00:13:39,820
or you get people
to help you with how to dress.
283
00:13:39,820 --> 00:13:40,988
It's like anything else.
284
00:13:40,988 --> 00:13:42,531
If you have a garden,
you're not gonna just
285
00:13:42,531 --> 00:13:44,157
try to do it all yourself.
You get a pro.
286
00:13:44,449 --> 00:13:46,743
COURI:
I put her on all the right committees.
287
00:13:46,743 --> 00:13:48,453
She showed up. She took the pictures.
288
00:13:48,745 --> 00:13:52,291
I told her it was more
of a silent movie game than anything,
289
00:13:52,291 --> 00:13:54,293
that she really shouldn't talk too much.
290
00:13:54,293 --> 00:13:57,713
And at some point, you know,
Tinsley felt her oats.
291
00:13:57,713 --> 00:14:01,508
She was the queen, um,
on the cover of The Post twice.
292
00:14:01,508 --> 00:14:05,470
KELLY BRADY: She was the most photographed
woman in Manhattan society.
293
00:14:05,470 --> 00:14:07,347
She created a bag line,
294
00:14:07,347 --> 00:14:09,892
then Dior named a lipstick after her.
295
00:14:10,392 --> 00:14:11,977
She was on billboards.
296
00:14:13,353 --> 00:14:16,231
Whenever Tinsley walked into a party,
297
00:14:16,231 --> 00:14:18,609
it was, like,
photographers rushing over her.
298
00:14:18,609 --> 00:14:20,694
Flashes, flashes,
flashes, flashes, like,
299
00:14:20,694 --> 00:14:22,905
"Tinsley, Tinsley,
Fabiola, Fabiola, Tinsley!"
300
00:14:22,905 --> 00:14:25,157
[indistinct shouting]
PHOTOGRAPHER: Fabiola!
301
00:14:25,616 --> 00:14:28,076
BEN: Something else that
changed during this era
302
00:14:28,076 --> 00:14:30,162
is that downtown and uptown really merged
303
00:14:30,162 --> 00:14:33,373
in a way that they hadn't so much before
in New York society.
304
00:14:33,373 --> 00:14:36,793
So, suddenly, all the socials
were coming below 14th Street
305
00:14:36,793 --> 00:14:39,379
to places like Beatrice Inn
in the West Village.
306
00:14:39,379 --> 00:14:41,298
They were going to the clubs
of the meat packing district,
307
00:14:41,298 --> 00:14:42,633
which had newly opened up.
308
00:14:42,633 --> 00:14:45,177
They were going to Bungalow 8
in far west Chelsea.
309
00:14:45,177 --> 00:14:49,014
♪
310
00:14:49,014 --> 00:14:51,350
AMY SACCO:
All the socialites came through,
311
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:54,937
my little fashion plates,
my fashionistas, my social gals.
312
00:14:54,937 --> 00:14:58,482
Nicky, Paris, Nicole Richie, Casey,
313
00:14:58,482 --> 00:15:00,817
Tinsley, my favorite.
314
00:15:00,817 --> 00:15:04,696
♪
315
00:15:04,696 --> 00:15:07,783
TINSLEY: You hear about the old days
of Studio 54 and everything.
316
00:15:07,783 --> 00:15:12,329
Bungalow 8 was that for my generation
and my world and stuff.
317
00:15:12,329 --> 00:15:14,748
And that was just the coolest place.
318
00:15:14,748 --> 00:15:18,168
It was small and intimate,
and all your friends were there.
319
00:15:18,168 --> 00:15:20,671
AMY: I really believe
in the cross-cultural,
320
00:15:20,671 --> 00:15:23,006
trans-generational dynamic.
321
00:15:23,006 --> 00:15:27,261
So, we always had models, moguls,
rogues, raconteurs,
322
00:15:27,261 --> 00:15:29,471
reprobates, skateboarders
323
00:15:29,471 --> 00:15:32,558
sitting next to, you know,
George Clooney or RuPaul.
324
00:15:33,225 --> 00:15:34,726
[inaudible]
325
00:15:35,894 --> 00:15:38,105
VALENTINE UHOVSKI: Bungalow 8
was huge because, you know,
326
00:15:38,105 --> 00:15:43,026
you would have an, a socialite sat
three seats away from famous drag queen
327
00:15:43,026 --> 00:15:44,778
to an emerging designer.
328
00:15:44,778 --> 00:15:47,030
And we were just, you know,
college students at the time,
329
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:49,783
and the drinks were too expensive,
so we ordered pizza.
330
00:15:49,783 --> 00:15:52,411
Pizza was more cheaper than the drinks
at Bungalow 8.
331
00:15:52,411 --> 00:15:55,330
We'd be the only people eating
at Bungalow 8.
332
00:15:55,330 --> 00:15:58,083
People were doing blow,
and they were hanging out,
333
00:15:58,083 --> 00:15:59,418
and they were makin' the world go round.
334
00:15:59,418 --> 00:16:02,588
And you would see
the richest families in the world,
335
00:16:02,588 --> 00:16:06,091
and it would be 12,
1:00 A.M., 2:00 A.M., 4:00 A.M.,
336
00:16:06,091 --> 00:16:08,552
and everybody would still be partying.
337
00:16:08,552 --> 00:16:10,554
And I promise you,
338
00:16:10,554 --> 00:16:14,183
deals were done on those
dirty coke sex tables.
339
00:16:14,183 --> 00:16:16,476
Remember you could--
I could be, like, super drunk
340
00:16:16,476 --> 00:16:18,353
and then I was starving, and I'd go out
341
00:16:18,353 --> 00:16:20,731
and go get, like, hotdogs,
like, on the street
342
00:16:20,731 --> 00:16:21,690
and then come back in.
343
00:16:21,690 --> 00:16:23,233
And sometimes there were
photographers out there
344
00:16:23,233 --> 00:16:25,527
and they would, like, get me, like,
getting, like, a hotdog.
345
00:16:27,029 --> 00:16:30,240
You know, we just were doing the things
that people before us did too.
346
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:31,950
But the times had changed a little bit
347
00:16:31,950 --> 00:16:34,870
where things were then popping
on the internet the next day.
348
00:16:35,370 --> 00:16:37,331
The term "socialite"
was a hard word for me,
349
00:16:37,331 --> 00:16:40,667
because I was actually really busy
and really working,
350
00:16:40,667 --> 00:16:42,669
and people thought was more frivolous.
351
00:16:42,669 --> 00:16:44,630
And, like, I'm just, like, lunching.
352
00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:47,090
"She's going to parties,
she's dressing up and she's lunching."
353
00:16:47,090 --> 00:16:48,342
It was not that way.
354
00:16:48,342 --> 00:16:50,719
So, having a lot of press
written about you,
355
00:16:50,719 --> 00:16:52,804
and of course, when the blog
started to come up,
356
00:16:52,804 --> 00:16:55,682
I didn't love that time, it was difficult.
357
00:16:59,478 --> 00:17:03,524
BEN: When the blogging craze took off,
it seemed like the wild west of media.
358
00:17:03,982 --> 00:17:05,192
Suddenly, everyday people
359
00:17:05,192 --> 00:17:07,444
were putting their opinions
about famous people
360
00:17:07,444 --> 00:17:08,320
on the internet,
361
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,239
which was a big deal at the time.
362
00:17:10,239 --> 00:17:12,824
And I think the secret
to many of the blogs' appeal
363
00:17:12,824 --> 00:17:15,410
is that they were really great way
to waste time at work.
364
00:17:15,410 --> 00:17:17,538
You could scroll Perez Hilton
for a few minutes,
365
00:17:17,538 --> 00:17:20,165
read some salacious celebrity
gossip, see some pictures.
366
00:17:20,165 --> 00:17:22,835
Uh, and people who had cultural foresight
367
00:17:22,835 --> 00:17:24,878
understood that actually
was incredibly important
368
00:17:24,878 --> 00:17:26,547
and it was what
the younger people were reading.
369
00:17:26,547 --> 00:17:29,383
Suddenly, the publicists
were less relevant than they were.
370
00:17:29,383 --> 00:17:32,678
And you could get around
the traditional tabloid gossip columns
371
00:17:32,678 --> 00:17:35,514
by going directly
to these opinion samurai,
372
00:17:35,514 --> 00:17:38,016
who are self-publishing
their own thoughts and their own pictures
373
00:17:38,016 --> 00:17:39,309
on their own platforms.
374
00:17:39,309 --> 00:17:43,146
So, it was really a collision
of the old guard and the new guard.
375
00:17:43,146 --> 00:17:46,900
A-And now, print legacy media
was dominated by the blogs.
376
00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:48,193
Blogs like Gawker.
377
00:17:49,695 --> 00:17:51,655
KELLY:
When the blogs started,
378
00:17:51,655 --> 00:17:55,534
they really started covering
these Manhattan society girls,
379
00:17:55,534 --> 00:17:57,452
and it could get a little mean.
380
00:17:58,161 --> 00:18:00,038
PERSON 1:
Nice job, whoring yourself out
381
00:18:00,038 --> 00:18:02,416
to a full prone magazine,
Tinsley Mortimer.
382
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,170
Oh, and speaking of whoring
and whoriness,
383
00:18:06,170 --> 00:18:08,714
the fake nails plus
lots of big jewelry thing
384
00:18:08,714 --> 00:18:11,008
is a little prostitutional, no?
385
00:18:12,092 --> 00:18:13,844
EMILY GOULD:
When I first started working at Gawker,
386
00:18:13,844 --> 00:18:17,097
there were a lot of industries
that were just, like, on the verge
387
00:18:17,097 --> 00:18:20,976
of being completely as extinct
as the dinosaurs.
388
00:18:21,393 --> 00:18:22,811
And there I was,
389
00:18:22,811 --> 00:18:26,023
and I just thought that I had
gotten so lucky. [laughs]
390
00:18:26,023 --> 00:18:31,403
And that I was gonna, you know,
speak truth to power in this job.
391
00:18:34,781 --> 00:18:37,618
There was a lot of money
in New York right then,
392
00:18:37,618 --> 00:18:42,122
and it was the fashion culture
of, like, obvious status symbols,
393
00:18:42,122 --> 00:18:44,666
giant, giant handbags.
394
00:18:44,666 --> 00:18:46,668
You know, you really wanted a bag
395
00:18:46,668 --> 00:18:49,671
that was, like,
as big as your entire body.
396
00:18:49,671 --> 00:18:53,258
But, you know, I was not making
very much money at Gawker.
397
00:18:53,634 --> 00:18:58,222
As a contrast,
Gawker was so grubby, so gritty.
398
00:18:58,222 --> 00:19:00,224
We worked in a storefront office
399
00:19:01,350 --> 00:19:03,185
and people would wander in
off the street all the time
400
00:19:03,185 --> 00:19:05,604
because they thought it was a coffee shop.
401
00:19:05,604 --> 00:19:08,732
So, it was definitely the vibe of
402
00:19:08,732 --> 00:19:14,488
we are going to make fun of anyone
who is rich and powerful
403
00:19:14,488 --> 00:19:15,447
because we can,
404
00:19:15,447 --> 00:19:16,949
because that's possible.
405
00:19:17,449 --> 00:19:19,993
PERSON 1: Debutard Tinsley Mortimer's
handbag line launch
406
00:19:19,993 --> 00:19:23,664
featured a worst-nightmare tableau
of lookalike Tinsleys,
407
00:19:23,664 --> 00:19:26,250
who also presumably
have to get their hair curled
408
00:19:26,250 --> 00:19:28,252
before leaving the house.
409
00:19:28,252 --> 00:19:31,463
LOLA: Emily was definitely
one of the most powerful voices
410
00:19:31,463 --> 00:19:33,799
in New York media at the time,
411
00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:37,469
and you understood that,
like, she had the power of the pen.
412
00:19:37,469 --> 00:19:42,516
And that pen could be vicious
and scandalous and snarky and mean.
413
00:19:43,892 --> 00:19:46,103
PERSON 1: "Tinsley Mortimer Is Slipping."
414
00:19:46,103 --> 00:19:49,398
Olivia Palermo,
your path seems to have cleared.
415
00:19:49,398 --> 00:19:51,650
[indistinct chatter]
416
00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:54,528
BEN: Olivia Palermo was now
the really bright spark on the scene
417
00:19:54,528 --> 00:19:55,571
when she emerged.
418
00:19:55,571 --> 00:19:57,239
She was a natural in front of the camera.
419
00:19:57,239 --> 00:19:59,116
Patrick McMullan loves
snapping pictures of her.
420
00:19:59,116 --> 00:20:01,869
She had the right connections.
She was from Greenwich.
421
00:20:01,869 --> 00:20:03,370
She went to the right schools.
422
00:20:03,370 --> 00:20:07,374
She didn't necessarily come
from the level of wealth,
423
00:20:07,374 --> 00:20:09,126
uh, of many of the other socials.
424
00:20:09,126 --> 00:20:12,880
Uh, and I think for that reason,
some people were a little bit wary of her,
425
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,716
that maybe she was trying to break her way
into some-someplace she didn't belong.
426
00:20:16,216 --> 00:20:20,804
Another blog that was particularly vicious
was Socialite Rank.
427
00:20:20,804 --> 00:20:23,515
And Socialite Rank pitted her
against Tinsley Mortimer
428
00:20:23,515 --> 00:20:25,517
as kind of a natural nemesis.
429
00:20:25,517 --> 00:20:28,812
Socialite Rank was an
anonymously written blog
430
00:20:28,812 --> 00:20:32,441
devoted to who was up and who was down
in the socialite world.
431
00:20:32,441 --> 00:20:37,654
They kept a running tally of the 20 women
ranked by their prominence.
432
00:20:37,654 --> 00:20:39,656
When it first came out,
433
00:20:39,656 --> 00:20:42,201
I was ranked number one,
434
00:20:42,201 --> 00:20:46,371
and it was either
Lauren Santo Domingo was two,
435
00:20:46,371 --> 00:20:47,998
or Fabiola Beracasa.
436
00:20:47,998 --> 00:20:51,335
Then, I think we happened to be
in the Hamptons altogether at that time.
437
00:20:51,335 --> 00:20:53,337
And we just thought it was so funny.
We were sort of joking.
438
00:20:53,337 --> 00:20:55,088
I was like, "I'm number one,"
and be like, "Whatever."
439
00:20:55,088 --> 00:20:56,715
You know, just, like, it's a joke.
440
00:20:56,715 --> 00:21:00,552
But, um-- And we thought it was fun
for about half a second
441
00:21:00,552 --> 00:21:03,472
until it just became not fun.
442
00:21:03,472 --> 00:21:07,893
♪
443
00:21:07,893 --> 00:21:11,146
BEN: Even when we didn't know
who was behind Socialite Rank,
444
00:21:11,146 --> 00:21:13,774
Olga and Valentine were on the scene
445
00:21:13,774 --> 00:21:17,736
and they cultivated a real air of mystery
about their relationship.
446
00:21:17,736 --> 00:21:21,532
They never let it be known
whether they were brother and sister
447
00:21:21,532 --> 00:21:22,741
or whether they were lovers
448
00:21:22,741 --> 00:21:24,993
and that was part of their mystique.
449
00:21:25,536 --> 00:21:28,830
I'm Valentine Uhovski.
I'm a cultural curator
450
00:21:28,830 --> 00:21:31,917
and I'm one of the co-founders
of Socialite Rank.
451
00:21:31,917 --> 00:21:33,085
I'm Olga Rei.
452
00:21:33,085 --> 00:21:39,007
Um, I'm a co-founder of Socialite Rank
and... that's it.
453
00:21:39,967 --> 00:21:42,177
[indistinct chatter]
454
00:21:42,845 --> 00:21:47,057
VALENTINE: We both came to New York
in mid-'90s from Russia.
455
00:21:47,057 --> 00:21:50,060
While we were still in high school,
we started working pretty early.
456
00:21:50,477 --> 00:21:52,646
Olga worked in two modeling agencies.
457
00:21:52,646 --> 00:21:54,439
I worked in PR,
458
00:21:54,439 --> 00:21:57,401
so we kind of had a little bit
of exposure to the world.
459
00:21:59,194 --> 00:22:01,905
OLGA REI:
And also, I interned for Marc Jacobs,
460
00:22:01,905 --> 00:22:05,200
and, you know, through that,
I got to attend some of his parties
461
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,120
and his events are just
the most beautiful parties
462
00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:09,121
you could attend.
463
00:22:09,121 --> 00:22:12,374
My first makeup experience
was with Amanda Lepore
464
00:22:12,374 --> 00:22:14,084
and she did my, my lips.
465
00:22:14,084 --> 00:22:17,671
So, New York was a very special place
where you can go and meet Amanda Lepore
466
00:22:17,671 --> 00:22:20,507
and she would give you a makeup tutorial.
467
00:22:21,341 --> 00:22:22,968
[indistinct chatter]
468
00:22:23,468 --> 00:22:27,181
VALENTINE: When we're both 19,
we started promoting at a club.
469
00:22:27,764 --> 00:22:32,102
Promoted something like 30 events
with everyone from Jenna Jameson
470
00:22:32,102 --> 00:22:34,396
to socialites.
471
00:22:34,396 --> 00:22:36,982
Social Rank was an art project
472
00:22:36,982 --> 00:22:40,068
and when we conceived it,
we thought it was a complete joke,
473
00:22:40,068 --> 00:22:43,363
that it was, like, an inside,
like, a Pop Art joke.
474
00:22:43,363 --> 00:22:47,159
We were inspired by everyone from Duchamp
with his, like, Dada movement,
475
00:22:47,159 --> 00:22:47,993
to, you know--
476
00:22:47,993 --> 00:22:50,787
Andy Warhol.
I mean, we love Andy Warhol
477
00:22:50,787 --> 00:22:54,374
and just the melting pot
of the high and low
478
00:22:54,374 --> 00:22:57,961
and how he would bring drag queens
and then socialites together
479
00:22:57,961 --> 00:23:02,799
and create beautiful projects with it
that we see in the museums right now.
480
00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:04,801
So, it was always an art project.
481
00:23:05,677 --> 00:23:08,222
VALENTINE:
Tinsley, she was at her prime
482
00:23:08,222 --> 00:23:10,599
and, and just kind of, like,
this perfect character
483
00:23:10,599 --> 00:23:11,850
that you couldn't even invent.
484
00:23:11,850 --> 00:23:13,602
I mean, she was just
this amazing, friendly,
485
00:23:13,602 --> 00:23:15,562
sunny kind of woman
486
00:23:15,562 --> 00:23:19,608
that, um, just became
almost like a poster child for the website
487
00:23:19,608 --> 00:23:20,651
when it launched.
488
00:23:20,651 --> 00:23:23,028
[indistinct shouting]
489
00:23:23,028 --> 00:23:26,031
Olivia was, you know, super young.
She was younger than us.
490
00:23:26,031 --> 00:23:29,535
She was almost like
an anti-Tinsley in some ways,
491
00:23:29,535 --> 00:23:30,994
not just with the hair color.
492
00:23:30,994 --> 00:23:33,080
She was just younger, more emerging,
493
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,707
and she was just like this,
you know, beautiful girl
494
00:23:35,707 --> 00:23:38,794
that, like us, appeared out of nowhere,
burst into the scene.
495
00:23:39,503 --> 00:23:42,798
And Tinsley, she kind of was old school
496
00:23:42,798 --> 00:23:45,300
and Olivia represented
of what was coming.
497
00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:48,804
So, we created a storylines
of who the heroes were,
498
00:23:48,804 --> 00:23:50,264
who the villains were,
499
00:23:50,264 --> 00:23:52,474
but it was also, like,
a lot of the comment sections
500
00:23:52,474 --> 00:23:55,018
dictated a lot where the storylines went.
501
00:23:55,811 --> 00:23:58,981
And at that point,
it basically grew on its own.
502
00:23:58,981 --> 00:24:00,274
It was a ecosystem,
503
00:24:00,274 --> 00:24:04,945
so it really was its own world
where people would just--
504
00:24:04,945 --> 00:24:06,738
they would have dialogues with each other.
505
00:24:08,073 --> 00:24:09,992
PERSON 2:
"Tinsley is washed up!"
506
00:24:10,534 --> 00:24:12,160
"She's so two-thousand late."
507
00:24:12,703 --> 00:24:14,121
PERSON 3:
"Is her nose real?
508
00:24:14,121 --> 00:24:16,164
Her hair? Her wealth?"
509
00:24:16,164 --> 00:24:18,250
PERSON 4:
"Welcome to the top, bitches!
510
00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:20,335
It's a long way back down."
511
00:24:20,335 --> 00:24:22,880
People just can sit on their sofa
behind their computer
512
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,048
and just make all these comments
about you.
513
00:24:25,048 --> 00:24:27,926
Having, you know, to deal with
all these negative comments
514
00:24:27,926 --> 00:24:30,929
or just feeling like I was a target
or had, like, a bullseye on my back,
515
00:24:30,929 --> 00:24:32,598
it took me down a bit.
516
00:24:33,056 --> 00:24:34,433
It made things different.
517
00:24:34,433 --> 00:24:36,810
It made things look like
they were competitive when they weren't,
518
00:24:36,810 --> 00:24:37,769
at least for me.
519
00:24:37,769 --> 00:24:39,021
It made things look more seedy
520
00:24:39,021 --> 00:24:41,690
when it was people were doing
good work in these events
521
00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:42,941
and they might be being photographed
522
00:24:42,941 --> 00:24:44,443
and might be, you know,
wearing glamorous clothes,
523
00:24:44,443 --> 00:24:47,029
but it just wasn't the world
that they were sort of portraying.
524
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:50,157
I get that they were doing
sort of a mockery of it a little bit
525
00:24:50,157 --> 00:24:52,367
and it was sort of fun
and people loved it.
526
00:24:52,618 --> 00:24:55,704
Uh, so it's, it's hard 'cause that, to me,
527
00:24:55,704 --> 00:24:58,707
honestly, I don't--
I, I feel like it was-- that was a,
528
00:24:58,707 --> 00:25:00,417
that was a rough moment.
529
00:25:00,417 --> 00:25:02,002
I just think overall it kind of was
530
00:25:02,002 --> 00:25:04,671
a little bit more hurtful to me
than, than helpful.
531
00:25:06,298 --> 00:25:09,635
PERSON 5: Socialite Rank
posted an email that young socialite
532
00:25:09,635 --> 00:25:12,554
and New School University
student, Olivia Palermo,
533
00:25:12,554 --> 00:25:15,015
sent to all her frenemies on Sunday.
534
00:25:15,849 --> 00:25:17,392
There was a minor scandal
535
00:25:17,392 --> 00:25:19,811
involving Olivia Palermo
and Socialite Rank.
536
00:25:20,521 --> 00:25:21,897
They published an email,
537
00:25:21,897 --> 00:25:24,775
which they claimed
she had sent to her fellow socials
538
00:25:24,775 --> 00:25:27,569
saying to the other girls on the scene,
539
00:25:27,569 --> 00:25:28,987
"Oh, we've got off on the wrong foot
540
00:25:28,987 --> 00:25:31,406
"and, you know, the-- people are saying
mean things about me,
541
00:25:31,406 --> 00:25:33,450
but I'm really not like that.
I'm much nicer."
542
00:25:33,450 --> 00:25:36,745
And the way that Socialite Rank
positioned this email
543
00:25:36,745 --> 00:25:37,788
when they published it
544
00:25:37,788 --> 00:25:39,790
was that she was sucking up
to the other girls
545
00:25:39,790 --> 00:25:42,543
in order to gain a position
in their society.
546
00:25:42,543 --> 00:25:44,169
I think it goes to show
547
00:25:44,169 --> 00:25:47,464
that someone was clearly--
had too much time on their hands,
548
00:25:47,464 --> 00:25:49,091
or I was a little exciting for them,
549
00:25:49,091 --> 00:25:50,676
so I'll take that as a compliment.
550
00:25:50,676 --> 00:25:53,345
But other than that,
I was not happy with the fact
551
00:25:53,345 --> 00:25:56,640
that someone was using my name
and likeness without my consent.
552
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,394
I think it anything,
it was just more, um, the fact
553
00:26:00,394 --> 00:26:01,979
that someone can be so malicious.
554
00:26:01,979 --> 00:26:04,147
ZACKARY DRUCKER:
When did you first become aware of it?
555
00:26:04,147 --> 00:26:05,858
I have-- I had only known about it
556
00:26:05,858 --> 00:26:07,860
because someone had
mentioned it twice to me,
557
00:26:07,860 --> 00:26:09,236
but it was not on my radar
558
00:26:09,236 --> 00:26:12,281
'cause it wasn't the content
that I was reading at the time.
559
00:26:12,865 --> 00:26:16,034
So, I was aware of it, obviously,
when my friends told me that, like,
560
00:26:16,034 --> 00:26:18,620
"Should maybe, like,
call your lawyer and check this out."
561
00:26:18,620 --> 00:26:20,497
The internet was a new time.
562
00:26:20,497 --> 00:26:23,625
Laws were not really created
for online yet,
563
00:26:23,625 --> 00:26:25,419
so it was kind of a free-for-all,
564
00:26:25,419 --> 00:26:28,297
but, you know, it was important to
make sure that it was shut down
565
00:26:28,297 --> 00:26:31,175
and, um, we did that quite quickly.
566
00:26:31,175 --> 00:26:32,092
[slight chuckle]
567
00:26:34,386 --> 00:26:36,763
BEN:
Olivia Palermo threatened to sue.
568
00:26:36,763 --> 00:26:39,558
Whether she did or didn't sue,
I'm not sure she did,
569
00:26:39,558 --> 00:26:41,101
she certainly rattled her saber
570
00:26:41,101 --> 00:26:42,811
and that was enough
to bring the house of cards
571
00:26:42,811 --> 00:26:44,980
that was Socialite Rank crashing down.
572
00:26:45,355 --> 00:26:47,107
VALENTINE:
It was bigger than us
573
00:26:47,107 --> 00:26:51,153
because every single one of these women
had managers behind them,
574
00:26:51,153 --> 00:26:52,946
publicists, wealthy families,
575
00:26:52,946 --> 00:26:56,366
so we were always had, in a way,
incredible power
576
00:26:56,366 --> 00:26:59,786
but we were just young college kids
that were way over our league
577
00:26:59,786 --> 00:27:01,538
when it came to the status
578
00:27:01,538 --> 00:27:05,167
and, and, um, and, obviously, wealth
of some of the ladies on the list.
579
00:27:07,836 --> 00:27:13,008
ZACKARY: What do you think this whole
blogging era says about us as a culture?
580
00:27:13,008 --> 00:27:14,343
Well, that's America for you.
581
00:27:14,343 --> 00:27:16,803
They ha-- They bring them up
and then they bring them down.
582
00:27:16,803 --> 00:27:18,722
I would like them just to, like,
can we just stay up
583
00:27:18,722 --> 00:27:20,599
and just, you know, stay happy up?
584
00:27:20,599 --> 00:27:22,226
Why do we always have to tear people down?
585
00:27:22,226 --> 00:27:23,310
Doesn't make sense to me.
586
00:27:25,354 --> 00:27:29,066
BEN: Socialite Rank really set the scene
for interest in this kind of world
587
00:27:29,066 --> 00:27:31,235
and when that went away, it left a void.
588
00:27:31,235 --> 00:27:34,488
And so, there was a ready-made audience
who wanted to know about these women
589
00:27:34,488 --> 00:27:37,824
and that's when Park Avenue Peerage
arrived on the scene.
590
00:27:38,158 --> 00:27:41,578
And Park Avenue Peerage
was very different in tone.
591
00:27:41,578 --> 00:27:43,247
Uh, it was much more celebratory
of the women,
592
00:27:43,247 --> 00:27:44,665
it was much more respectful
593
00:27:44,665 --> 00:27:48,627
and we were still very much
in the era of the snarky blog.
594
00:27:48,627 --> 00:27:49,878
So, it was refreshing at the time
595
00:27:49,878 --> 00:27:53,131
to see someone taking an approach
which was not as critical,
596
00:27:53,131 --> 00:27:56,593
uh, and not so interested
in pitting the women against each other.
597
00:27:58,303 --> 00:28:01,807
PERSON 6: " I cordially welcome you
to Park Avenue Peerage,
598
00:28:01,807 --> 00:28:04,434
"a new website dedicated
to the social creatures
599
00:28:04,434 --> 00:28:05,853
"of the here and now.
600
00:28:06,979 --> 00:28:10,941
"We wish the creators of Socialite Rank
all the best in their endeavors,
601
00:28:10,941 --> 00:28:13,402
"but their collective judgment
is over now.
602
00:28:13,902 --> 00:28:15,904
The crown became ours this morning."
603
00:28:16,947 --> 00:28:18,323
TINSLEY:
Park Avenue Peerage appeared
604
00:28:18,323 --> 00:28:21,493
right when Socialite Rank
was ending or ended,
605
00:28:21,493 --> 00:28:23,996
and I remember noticing it and thinking,
606
00:28:24,830 --> 00:28:27,499
"Okay, well, this one seems nicer."
607
00:28:27,499 --> 00:28:29,418
There was no rankings and things,
608
00:28:29,418 --> 00:28:32,754
so it wasn't this, like, competition
that's being put forth
609
00:28:32,754 --> 00:28:34,381
that never really existed.
610
00:28:34,381 --> 00:28:36,550
Whoever the mysterious people were
that were doing it
611
00:28:36,550 --> 00:28:38,468
were very smart and definitely seemed
612
00:28:38,468 --> 00:28:41,513
so knowledgeable
about the world of socialites.
613
00:28:41,513 --> 00:28:44,057
And that's also why
it was Park Avenue Peerage, you know?
614
00:28:44,057 --> 00:28:46,059
It was just sort of sounded more grand.
615
00:28:48,103 --> 00:28:50,731
PERSON 7: In New York, the guilty
party pictures pleasures
616
00:28:50,731 --> 00:28:52,357
offered at Park Avenue Peerage
617
00:28:52,357 --> 00:28:56,820
may be the closest thing to a real-life
Gossip Girl website in existence,
618
00:28:56,820 --> 00:28:59,072
except way, way nicer.
619
00:29:00,157 --> 00:29:02,117
BEN:
Was an instant sensation,
620
00:29:02,117 --> 00:29:04,328
and like Socialite Rank,
nobody knew who wrote it
621
00:29:04,328 --> 00:29:06,788
and it really did sound like
it was written
622
00:29:06,788 --> 00:29:10,876
by some Gossip Girl -esque
anonymous scion of a rich family.
623
00:29:10,876 --> 00:29:13,462
And because Park Avenue Peerage
was written by someone
624
00:29:13,462 --> 00:29:17,090
who had a little bit more understanding
of what went on in that world,
625
00:29:17,090 --> 00:29:18,800
there was sort of more a possibility
626
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,637
that it might have been written
by someone who was inside the scene.
627
00:29:21,970 --> 00:29:25,974
And Park Avenue Peerage seemed to want
to emulate them and understand them,
628
00:29:25,974 --> 00:29:29,520
uh, emotionally in a way
that Socialite Rank never tried to do.
629
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,064
But the one consistent thing
between the two of them
630
00:29:32,064 --> 00:29:35,817
was that Tinsley Mortimer
was still the most socially regarded girl.
631
00:29:35,817 --> 00:29:39,696
PERSON 8: Tinsley is fair-skinned
with blonde hair that she usually curls.
632
00:29:39,696 --> 00:29:42,699
She often wears shorter skirts
and rounded shoes
633
00:29:42,699 --> 00:29:45,202
and her cheeks are rouged.
634
00:29:45,202 --> 00:29:47,621
She is the embodiment of playful youth.
635
00:29:48,622 --> 00:29:51,291
TINSLEY:
Because they wrote so much about me,
636
00:29:51,291 --> 00:29:53,919
people thought that
I had something to do with it,
637
00:29:53,919 --> 00:29:57,881
but they all found out who it was
and it wasn't me. [laughs]
638
00:30:01,385 --> 00:30:04,471
♪ light music playing ♪
639
00:30:13,647 --> 00:30:15,315
ADAM HOFF:
Working as a photographer,
640
00:30:15,315 --> 00:30:19,278
my first actual assignment
was with New York Magazine
641
00:30:19,278 --> 00:30:23,782
and the story in the magazine
was basically about the New York society
642
00:30:23,782 --> 00:30:25,826
and a few of these bloggers.
643
00:30:26,785 --> 00:30:30,289
I mean, Park Avenue Peerage
was as anonymous as you could be.
644
00:30:32,207 --> 00:30:34,751
All I was told was
he was a college student
645
00:30:34,751 --> 00:30:36,628
at University of Illinois
646
00:30:36,628 --> 00:30:40,215
and so, there was a lot of hype
and a lot of interest
647
00:30:40,215 --> 00:30:41,550
to find out who this person was.
648
00:30:41,550 --> 00:30:44,094
♪
649
00:30:45,721 --> 00:30:47,472
I remember meeting him
in person right away.
650
00:30:47,472 --> 00:30:50,100
To my knowledge, this was the first time
he had been photographed.
651
00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:53,437
♪
652
00:30:53,437 --> 00:30:55,856
He was very easy to be around.
He was very easy to talk to.
653
00:30:55,856 --> 00:30:58,192
But at the same time,
he was very nervous about it,
654
00:30:58,192 --> 00:31:01,486
and very insecure about how
he was gonna be perceived.
655
00:31:01,486 --> 00:31:05,073
I mean, he was a total outsider
from what I could tell.
656
00:31:05,657 --> 00:31:08,785
When he was finally revealed
to be James Kurisunkal,
657
00:31:08,785 --> 00:31:12,623
it was completely unexpected.
658
00:31:12,623 --> 00:31:14,541
It didn't make any sense.
[chuckles]
659
00:31:14,541 --> 00:31:16,627
JAMES KURISUNKAL:
Why did I even come out?
660
00:31:16,627 --> 00:31:19,338
The writer of the New York piece,
Isaiah Wilner, called me
661
00:31:19,338 --> 00:31:22,090
and we talked for hours off the record.
662
00:31:22,090 --> 00:31:25,511
I am aware that there was intrigue
in a mysterious author,
663
00:31:25,511 --> 00:31:27,513
but I just didn't see it.
664
00:31:27,513 --> 00:31:30,891
I think it is much more interesting
that I am who I am,
665
00:31:30,891 --> 00:31:34,269
a chronicler of Manhattan society
in the Midwest,
666
00:31:34,269 --> 00:31:36,980
who is neither WASP nor heir of industry.
667
00:31:37,439 --> 00:31:40,776
When James's identity was finally
revealed in New York Magazine,
668
00:31:40,776 --> 00:31:41,902
I think it was shocking to people,
669
00:31:41,902 --> 00:31:44,279
uh, because he was in Illinois
for one thing.
670
00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:46,907
He was far away from the action,
uh, and he was so young.
671
00:31:50,702 --> 00:31:52,371
CAMERA ASSISTANT:
Family interview, take one.
672
00:31:52,788 --> 00:31:54,373
JOSEPH KURISUNKAL:
Thank you for coming here.
673
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:56,667
PHILOMENA KURISUNKAL:
We had never heard this,
674
00:31:56,667 --> 00:31:59,378
so this is our first experience.
675
00:31:59,711 --> 00:32:02,005
We are norm-- you know, ordinary people.
676
00:32:06,844 --> 00:32:09,012
James born in '89.
677
00:32:09,429 --> 00:32:15,394
He's very caring, simple,
and, uh, compassionate.
678
00:32:15,644 --> 00:32:20,440
And, uh, in school,
he's a brilliant student.
679
00:32:20,983 --> 00:32:23,652
JOSEPH:
He like science project all the time.
680
00:32:23,652 --> 00:32:27,865
He was in the gifted class
from the grade school to high school.
681
00:32:27,865 --> 00:32:30,242
Doing homework and, uh, you know.
682
00:32:30,242 --> 00:32:34,246
He reads a lot,
so finally he start writing.
683
00:32:35,038 --> 00:32:38,709
♪
684
00:32:38,709 --> 00:32:41,712
JAMES: My favorite movie
when I was a child was Clueless.
685
00:32:41,712 --> 00:32:44,214
I literally thought I was Cher Horowitz.
686
00:32:44,214 --> 00:32:49,011
I'm not kidding. My imagination is wild.
687
00:32:49,011 --> 00:32:51,263
Television and film
and wedding announcements
688
00:32:51,263 --> 00:32:54,349
and novels, therefore,
are much more than moving images
689
00:32:54,349 --> 00:32:56,059
or groupings of text.
690
00:32:56,059 --> 00:32:58,854
My body physically hurts
when I'm watching or reading
691
00:32:58,854 --> 00:33:01,064
because I feel so much for the character.
692
00:33:01,982 --> 00:33:05,444
I have the ability
to plant myself anywhere.
693
00:33:05,444 --> 00:33:07,362
ZACKARY:
Did you know what he was writing?
694
00:33:07,362 --> 00:33:08,238
He never tell us.
695
00:33:08,238 --> 00:33:12,284
He, he don't show and, uh,
he don't, uh, tell what he's doing.
696
00:33:13,076 --> 00:33:15,162
JAMES:
La Lohan is my religion.
697
00:33:15,996 --> 00:33:18,707
I also enjoy Nicky Hilton's casual style.
698
00:33:18,707 --> 00:33:21,793
If I were a girl,
I think I'd be Nicky Hilton.
699
00:33:21,793 --> 00:33:24,630
I'd carry the largest,
clunkiest bag in daylight
700
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:27,341
and of course, my clunky sidekick.
701
00:33:27,341 --> 00:33:29,593
ZACKARY: When James was young,
did you feel like there was things
702
00:33:29,593 --> 00:33:32,012
that he kept secret or private?
703
00:33:32,596 --> 00:33:34,431
Most of them are private.
704
00:33:36,308 --> 00:33:38,560
JAMES:
I'm so fat and ugly.
705
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,064
I saw my reflection in the mirror
and I'm one large, silver mound of fat.
706
00:33:42,814 --> 00:33:44,775
I'm like an ugly boulder.
707
00:33:44,775 --> 00:33:46,944
They're usually majestic, but I am not.
708
00:33:48,237 --> 00:33:51,156
He never show anything, you know,
upset or anything that,
709
00:33:51,156 --> 00:33:53,867
always smiling, talking.
710
00:33:53,867 --> 00:33:55,619
Maybe he keeping inside something.
711
00:33:55,619 --> 00:33:57,371
- Yeah. He don't--
- We don't know.
712
00:33:57,371 --> 00:34:00,249
You know, if--
He was not very open all the time.
713
00:34:00,999 --> 00:34:05,295
That's, uh, you know, a main part,
you know, nobody would know what his,
714
00:34:05,295 --> 00:34:07,256
- his feelings are.
- Happening with him.
715
00:34:07,256 --> 00:34:10,717
♪ upbeat music playing ♪
716
00:34:10,717 --> 00:34:12,177
CASEY BLAKELY:
When James and I first met,
717
00:34:12,177 --> 00:34:15,264
I was a sophomore and he was a freshman.
718
00:34:15,264 --> 00:34:18,725
It was one of those college towns
where there was nothing around
719
00:34:18,725 --> 00:34:20,811
except for the college town.
720
00:34:20,811 --> 00:34:23,021
♪
721
00:34:23,021 --> 00:34:27,526
There was a gay bar on campus
called Chester Street
722
00:34:27,526 --> 00:34:28,735
or C Street for short,
723
00:34:28,735 --> 00:34:31,363
and we would go there
and just, like, dance the night away.
724
00:34:31,363 --> 00:34:33,907
It was such a small-town bar,
but in our heads,
725
00:34:33,907 --> 00:34:37,327
might as well have been
Babylon from, like, Queer as Folk.
726
00:34:37,327 --> 00:34:39,371
I had just come out,
it was my sophomore year.
727
00:34:39,371 --> 00:34:44,418
I was like 19 and I was going through
all my girl drama at that time
728
00:34:44,418 --> 00:34:47,588
and coming to him
and confiding in him,
729
00:34:47,588 --> 00:34:51,008
and so he and I
really did kind of connect.
730
00:34:51,008 --> 00:34:55,637
♪
731
00:34:55,637 --> 00:34:58,682
He was a wild child.
732
00:34:58,682 --> 00:35:00,475
He was just unique,
733
00:35:00,475 --> 00:35:03,854
a pure individual,
did things his own way
734
00:35:03,854 --> 00:35:06,356
and I just learned
to kind of, like, go with it.
735
00:35:06,356 --> 00:35:09,359
Just like, "Okay, that's just James.
He just does things his own way."
736
00:35:09,359 --> 00:35:12,613
JAMES:
"Homo in the Husks, journal entry.
737
00:35:12,613 --> 00:35:15,991
"I'm at a real college now,
like, with fraternities and football
738
00:35:15,991 --> 00:35:17,826
"and English majors.
739
00:35:17,826 --> 00:35:21,496
"I love pumpkin pie ice cream with caramel
and whipping topping and graham crackers
740
00:35:21,496 --> 00:35:23,207
"and boys with French surnames.
741
00:35:24,124 --> 00:35:27,044
"Joseph DuBois flirted with me
at Coldstone today.
742
00:35:27,044 --> 00:35:30,380
He's sweet and kind-eyed and he laughs."
743
00:35:31,882 --> 00:35:33,217
CASEY:
He's an amazing writer.
744
00:35:33,217 --> 00:35:36,595
Like, he's extremely talented,
extremely creative,
745
00:35:36,595 --> 00:35:39,264
very witty, very insightful.
746
00:35:39,264 --> 00:35:41,725
He always gave
really great, sound advice,
747
00:35:41,725 --> 00:35:45,187
but didn't always make the best decisions
when it came to himself.
748
00:35:45,646 --> 00:35:47,105
JAMES:
I'm not gorgeous.
749
00:35:47,105 --> 00:35:51,944
I'm not skinny, I'm not attractive,
nor am I fashionable one bit.
750
00:35:51,944 --> 00:35:53,612
I smell mostly, and I'm brown.
751
00:35:54,696 --> 00:35:56,990
Who will find my drama endearing?
752
00:35:56,990 --> 00:35:59,952
My laughing, my smile, my eyes, my skin?
753
00:36:00,536 --> 00:36:02,162
Who will love these?
754
00:36:02,871 --> 00:36:04,831
I wish I had someone who understood me.
755
00:36:07,251 --> 00:36:11,338
CASEY: James never verbally said,
"I want to be a socialite,"
756
00:36:11,338 --> 00:36:13,590
but if I pay closer attention,
757
00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:15,926
I could see he wanted to be
in that world.
758
00:36:15,926 --> 00:36:17,678
He wanted to be amongst them,
759
00:36:17,678 --> 00:36:20,138
and Tinsley was like his number one.
760
00:36:21,306 --> 00:36:24,810
JAMES:
"Tinsley Mortimer, March 7, 2007.
761
00:36:25,894 --> 00:36:28,146
"Tinsley Mortimer has been
the target of the camera
762
00:36:28,146 --> 00:36:31,316
"since she first made her premiere
as the demure but beautiful
763
00:36:31,316 --> 00:36:34,945
and fashionable wife of a scion
of one of New York's older families."
764
00:36:35,988 --> 00:36:37,948
CASEY: It was clear that it was
really important to him
765
00:36:37,948 --> 00:36:39,199
and he really treasured it.
766
00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:41,869
That was, that was his world,
uh, he really did admire that--
767
00:36:41,869 --> 00:36:45,747
I would ask him sometimes, like,
"How do you know so much about them?"
768
00:36:45,747 --> 00:36:48,375
And he would, he would laugh
and just say, like,
769
00:36:48,375 --> 00:36:50,836
"Casey, you can literally
Google the information."
770
00:36:50,836 --> 00:36:53,839
He's like, "It's literally out there
for anyone to read about
771
00:36:53,839 --> 00:36:55,257
if they really do the research."
772
00:36:55,257 --> 00:36:57,926
He was the first one to kind of
show me Google Analytics
773
00:36:57,926 --> 00:37:00,888
and all the background of who was visiting
774
00:37:00,888 --> 00:37:04,266
and how many more people visited
than, like, the week before.
775
00:37:04,266 --> 00:37:07,269
And when it became, like, really popular,
776
00:37:07,269 --> 00:37:09,855
that, for me, it kind of seemed
a little bit overnight.
777
00:37:11,732 --> 00:37:14,860
JAMES:
"Debut. May 7, 2007.
778
00:37:14,860 --> 00:37:18,530
"It's a simple fact that
every glorious debutante of our age
779
00:37:18,530 --> 00:37:21,033
"deserves a proper
and befitting coming out,
780
00:37:22,075 --> 00:37:24,536
"and I refuse
to give myself anything else.
781
00:37:25,537 --> 00:37:28,457
"Yesterday, I was but an unknown deb.
782
00:37:29,458 --> 00:37:32,878
This morning,
I liken myself to a Miller."
783
00:37:33,420 --> 00:37:34,838
CASEY:
When the story came out,
784
00:37:34,838 --> 00:37:38,050
where he was offered a job
with the New York Magazine
785
00:37:38,050 --> 00:37:42,179
and then I was just so proud of him,
like beaming from ear to ear.
786
00:37:42,179 --> 00:37:47,184
That was the ticket for him
to be amongst who he wrote about
787
00:37:47,184 --> 00:37:48,393
and knew so much about.
788
00:37:48,936 --> 00:37:51,688
JAMES: "I can't wait to move
to New York this summer.
789
00:37:51,688 --> 00:37:53,565
"I'd like to become an executive,
790
00:37:53,565 --> 00:37:56,026
"like a publisher or a studio head.
791
00:37:56,026 --> 00:37:57,694
I wanna be afforded respect."
792
00:37:59,571 --> 00:38:02,699
BEN: When he came to New York,
I would see him around at the time
793
00:38:02,699 --> 00:38:04,826
and I had a column called "Gate Crasher."
794
00:38:04,826 --> 00:38:06,662
Well, I guess James was
a reader of the column,
795
00:38:06,662 --> 00:38:09,414
and of course, he was fascinated
with the world that I was covering.
796
00:38:09,414 --> 00:38:12,084
It started a correspondence,
uh, and he was delightful
797
00:38:12,084 --> 00:38:14,002
and he was a little bit
starstruck, I think,
798
00:38:14,002 --> 00:38:17,673
about, you know, to be finally there
in this fairytale land
799
00:38:17,673 --> 00:38:20,050
that he'd been describing from afar
for so long.
800
00:38:20,050 --> 00:38:21,552
[indistinct chatter]
801
00:38:22,177 --> 00:38:26,640
TINSLEY: When James got to New York,
he reached out to me
802
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,101
and he was so sweet and such a fan
803
00:38:29,101 --> 00:38:31,311
and he was wanting to meet me
and all these things,
804
00:38:31,311 --> 00:38:34,648
and that's-- I-I found out
he didn't even live in New York.
805
00:38:34,648 --> 00:38:37,442
It was so crazy and so cute, adorable.
806
00:38:37,442 --> 00:38:39,236
I was like, "How cute is this?"
You know?
807
00:38:39,236 --> 00:38:42,990
This fascination with this world
and you're not even anywhere near it.
808
00:38:43,782 --> 00:38:45,409
And so, I set up where
he was gonna meet me
809
00:38:45,409 --> 00:38:46,952
at one of the Cinema Society events
810
00:38:46,952 --> 00:38:49,580
and we did, and I think
[indistinct] was there.
811
00:38:49,580 --> 00:38:53,542
JAMES: "New York Magazine.
July 12, 2007.
812
00:38:53,542 --> 00:38:56,461
"Park Avenue Peers:
A Blogger Meets Tinsley.
813
00:38:57,754 --> 00:39:00,757
"As I got out of the taxi
in front of the Tribeca Grand last night,
814
00:39:00,757 --> 00:39:03,177
"there were already blinding flashes.
815
00:39:03,177 --> 00:39:07,890
"There she was, Tinsley Mortimer
in full glory,
816
00:39:07,890 --> 00:39:10,142
"a vision in Dior.
817
00:39:10,142 --> 00:39:14,521
"A summer tan, golden heels
and that long, blonde hair.
818
00:39:15,355 --> 00:39:18,066
"Then I walked past the photographers,
opened the door,
819
00:39:18,066 --> 00:39:19,985
"and there she was waiting for me.
820
00:39:20,527 --> 00:39:23,113
'We are going to have a great night,'
she promised."
821
00:39:23,655 --> 00:39:26,241
CASEY: I remember him telling me
about meeting Tinsley,
822
00:39:26,825 --> 00:39:30,829
and he was very excited and very giddy
823
00:39:30,829 --> 00:39:35,792
and, um, I was happy for him
as well. Yeah.
824
00:39:35,792 --> 00:39:39,630
♪
825
00:39:45,677 --> 00:39:49,973
MORGAN: As a child, I felt unstable
in my own skin.
826
00:39:50,849 --> 00:39:52,935
I felt like I couldn't breathe.
827
00:39:53,977 --> 00:39:57,940
♪
828
00:40:03,695 --> 00:40:05,197
Now that I'm older,
829
00:40:05,572 --> 00:40:07,824
I see how two different people existed.
830
00:40:09,284 --> 00:40:11,954
One that was James, one that was me.
831
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,338
♪
832
00:40:21,338 --> 00:40:25,759
I always feel like "become" is, like,
like a strangling word
833
00:40:25,759 --> 00:40:29,304
because it's really to be
who one really is.
834
00:40:30,889 --> 00:40:33,892
You know, we might go through
some physical changes,
835
00:40:33,892 --> 00:40:36,937
but we're not becoming anyone.
836
00:40:36,937 --> 00:40:40,774
We are being who we always were.
837
00:40:40,774 --> 00:40:45,821
Just took a little bit of time
and a little bit of, uh, pain.
838
00:40:50,450 --> 00:40:53,328
My best friend when I was in high school
839
00:40:53,787 --> 00:40:56,957
was like, this like, old-money heiress.
840
00:40:57,332 --> 00:41:01,336
Her great-grandfather was Roswell Mason,
841
00:41:01,336 --> 00:41:04,590
who was, like, the mayor of Chicago
during the Great Fire
842
00:41:04,590 --> 00:41:09,011
and he was also the president
of the Illinois Central Railroad
843
00:41:09,011 --> 00:41:11,722
and, like, a colleague
of Cornelius Vanderbilt.
844
00:41:11,722 --> 00:41:15,976
For instance, like, her uncle's name
was like, Huntington Starkweather Mason.
845
00:41:15,976 --> 00:41:17,519
You go to Yale's campus,
846
00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:20,480
there's all these, like, buildings
named after their family.
847
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,483
Like, they were very old East Coast money
848
00:41:23,483 --> 00:41:27,779
and I didn't realize, like,
there were all these systems in place,
849
00:41:27,779 --> 00:41:29,615
so I was just fascinated by that.
850
00:41:29,615 --> 00:41:33,243
♪
851
00:41:34,203 --> 00:41:37,998
And then I was, like,
fascinated by her a lot.
852
00:41:37,998 --> 00:41:42,002
Here she was at this school of immigrants
853
00:41:42,002 --> 00:41:45,589
and we kind of, like, found each other.
Like, we were like two weirdos.
854
00:41:47,591 --> 00:41:49,301
Jennifer Aniston was in Chicago
855
00:41:49,301 --> 00:41:52,930
filming a movie called The Break-Up
with Vince Vaughn.
856
00:41:52,930 --> 00:41:54,765
We were like prodigious readers,
857
00:41:54,765 --> 00:41:57,100
so we were, like, reading,
like, Perez Hilton,
858
00:41:57,100 --> 00:42:00,103
Wonkette, Pink is the New Blog.
859
00:42:00,103 --> 00:42:04,233
And so, I sent that
as a tip in to Perez Hilton.
860
00:42:04,233 --> 00:42:06,777
I realized with just a word or a phrase,
861
00:42:06,777 --> 00:42:12,282
like, the layer between myself
and this glamorous, glittering world
862
00:42:12,282 --> 00:42:13,617
was not separate at all.
863
00:42:13,617 --> 00:42:16,286
With just a word, with just a few phrases.
864
00:42:16,954 --> 00:42:19,998
There was no separation.
It was right there.
865
00:42:20,791 --> 00:42:25,128
ZACKARY: I wanna get into talking
about New York and what that was like.
866
00:42:25,128 --> 00:42:28,841
Oh, yeah. Like, they treated me like
I was like, the Second Coming of Christ
867
00:42:28,841 --> 00:42:30,509
when I walked into that building.
868
00:42:30,968 --> 00:42:34,012
♪ angelic music playing ♪
869
00:42:41,144 --> 00:42:42,896
When I worked at New York Magazine,
870
00:42:42,896 --> 00:42:46,441
everything was done to like,
make sure that I was pampered.
871
00:42:46,441 --> 00:42:48,694
All these, like,
sorts of prominent people
872
00:42:48,694 --> 00:42:50,571
would come and pay homage.
873
00:42:50,571 --> 00:42:53,365
And it was really surreal,
to be quite honest,
874
00:42:53,365 --> 00:42:55,993
to go from, like, Champaign-Urbana
875
00:42:55,993 --> 00:43:00,372
to, like, literally two weeks later,
I have my own place in the East Village
876
00:43:00,372 --> 00:43:04,209
and I have a chauffeur
taking me here and there
877
00:43:04,209 --> 00:43:10,007
and, you know, lunch with this aristocrat
and dinner with this other person.
878
00:43:10,007 --> 00:43:13,969
♪
879
00:43:13,969 --> 00:43:17,598
I would go out at night with my colleague
at New York Magazine.
880
00:43:17,598 --> 00:43:21,226
We'd go to all these clubs
that other people couldn't get into,
881
00:43:21,226 --> 00:43:22,686
like the Beatrice Inn.
882
00:43:22,686 --> 00:43:27,733
That's where we'd run into like,
these downtown kind of characters
883
00:43:27,733 --> 00:43:30,986
that were, like, not uptown socialites.
884
00:43:30,986 --> 00:43:32,654
♪
885
00:43:32,654 --> 00:43:35,616
The first night I had ever
gone out in New York City,
886
00:43:35,616 --> 00:43:37,451
apparently, like,
everyone who's anyone
887
00:43:37,451 --> 00:43:39,077
knew that I was going out that night.
888
00:43:39,077 --> 00:43:43,123
I don't know why or how,
but I walked into the elevator
889
00:43:43,123 --> 00:43:46,585
and I think it was Anna Wintour,
Graydon Carter,
890
00:43:46,585 --> 00:43:50,255
the editor of GQ
and then the editor of Radar,
891
00:43:50,255 --> 00:43:52,174
and they were all checking me out.
892
00:43:52,758 --> 00:43:56,512
And I was just a kid, you know,
living a little bit of a dream.
893
00:43:58,764 --> 00:44:00,724
TINSLEY:
How are you? It's Tins.
894
00:44:01,183 --> 00:44:03,060
Hey. [echoes]
895
00:44:03,060 --> 00:44:04,978
No, I'm still typing the post.
896
00:44:05,562 --> 00:44:08,482
Tinsley and I became very fast friends.
897
00:44:08,482 --> 00:44:12,361
Yes, I know the place.
We go there all the time.
898
00:44:12,361 --> 00:44:14,821
Oh, my God.
899
00:44:14,821 --> 00:44:16,448
Hi.
900
00:44:16,448 --> 00:44:18,784
Though we looked like we were
from two different worlds,
901
00:44:18,784 --> 00:44:21,161
it was almost like we were
from the same world.
902
00:44:21,161 --> 00:44:24,706
Like, it was like I met my twin
and she met hers.
903
00:44:24,706 --> 00:44:27,209
You're special and you're beautiful
inside and out,
904
00:44:27,209 --> 00:44:30,087
and it's, it's important
just to keep being you
905
00:44:30,087 --> 00:44:32,756
and letting everyone see you.
906
00:44:32,756 --> 00:44:33,632
Thank you.
907
00:44:33,882 --> 00:44:37,886
She was like a nationally ranked
tennis player, like, in high school.
908
00:44:37,886 --> 00:44:41,807
Like, I could relate to her
'cause I was, like, a star writer
909
00:44:41,807 --> 00:44:43,934
when I was, like, barely 17. You know?
910
00:44:43,934 --> 00:44:48,397
So, we understood each other
on that weird, teen-prodigy level.
911
00:44:49,314 --> 00:44:52,776
It was almost like this weird sorority.
[giggles]
912
00:44:52,776 --> 00:44:55,445
This very secret society
that was very public.
913
00:45:03,579 --> 00:45:05,664
I don't know. I feel like
we talked on the phone
914
00:45:05,664 --> 00:45:09,459
like different times and just--
he was just this really sweet boy
915
00:45:09,459 --> 00:45:12,462
that, um, then was coming to New York
and really wanted to meet me
916
00:45:12,462 --> 00:45:13,714
and was super excited about it.
917
00:45:13,714 --> 00:45:17,467
And I just, you know, remember--
I mean, I'm sure I did, though--
918
00:45:17,467 --> 00:45:18,468
although I'm not sure.
919
00:45:18,468 --> 00:45:22,181
Was he, was he even doing
any of the parties and coming out?
920
00:45:22,181 --> 00:45:23,223
'Cause he, he didn't--
921
00:45:23,223 --> 00:45:25,517
Did he move to New York
at that point or no?
922
00:45:25,517 --> 00:45:27,561
No. So, he really wasn't around. Yeah.
923
00:45:27,561 --> 00:45:29,188
- ZACKARY: I mean, he was 19.
- Yeah.
924
00:45:29,188 --> 00:45:32,024
- ZACKARY: So, he couldn't have--
- Just like, so cute and young and I know.
925
00:45:32,024 --> 00:45:33,442
Yeah. So, no.
926
00:45:33,442 --> 00:45:36,945
ZACKARY: How does Morgan's narrative
differ from reality?
927
00:45:38,238 --> 00:45:40,449
I mean, you-you've spoken with her.
928
00:45:40,449 --> 00:45:44,286
She lives in her own world
and looking back, she always has.
929
00:45:44,578 --> 00:45:45,662
Um,
930
00:45:46,121 --> 00:45:49,374
things that are obvious,
things that everyone can see,
931
00:45:49,374 --> 00:45:53,086
it-it's kind of clear that she
doesn't always choose to see that.
932
00:45:53,086 --> 00:45:54,421
PHOTOGRAPHER 1:
And right to your left.
933
00:45:54,421 --> 00:45:56,006
[indistinct chatter]
934
00:45:56,006 --> 00:45:57,841
PHOTOGRAPHER 2:
Over the shoulder!
935
00:45:59,426 --> 00:46:02,012
MORGAN:
There's a freedom to being the other,
936
00:46:02,012 --> 00:46:04,598
a freedom to write your own story.
937
00:46:05,557 --> 00:46:08,018
Why should I live in their reality?
938
00:46:09,019 --> 00:46:13,732
I want my own truth,
a truth where I am beauty,
939
00:46:14,233 --> 00:46:16,151
I am love,
940
00:46:16,151 --> 00:46:17,736
I am everything.
941
00:46:19,821 --> 00:46:22,115
[ambient street sounds]
942
00:46:22,115 --> 00:46:24,493
CASEY: I came for a couple days
and visited him in New York.
943
00:46:24,493 --> 00:46:28,247
I remember the little apartment
that he was in,
944
00:46:28,247 --> 00:46:29,790
in the East Village.
945
00:46:29,790 --> 00:46:31,500
He had a s-- teeny, tiny, little room.
946
00:46:32,125 --> 00:46:36,922
I remember just being with,
like, my bestie.
947
00:46:36,922 --> 00:46:39,299
We were too young
to really go into any bars
948
00:46:39,299 --> 00:46:40,342
or any clubs like that,
949
00:46:40,342 --> 00:46:43,011
so we were just kind of
wandering the streets
950
00:46:43,011 --> 00:46:44,847
and just kind of going to Central Park
951
00:46:44,847 --> 00:46:47,641
and trying to, like,
mosey our way into parties
952
00:46:47,641 --> 00:46:50,227
that we just randomly found online.
953
00:46:50,227 --> 00:46:55,774
He found some party to go to
and the address was on 1st and 1st.
954
00:46:55,774 --> 00:46:59,236
And so, we just kind of set out on foot
trying to find 1st and 1st.
955
00:46:59,236 --> 00:47:02,155
We were-- kept asking each other,
like, "Is that even a thing?
956
00:47:02,155 --> 00:47:05,242
Can something really be on 1st and 1st?"
And it seemed like forever.
957
00:47:05,242 --> 00:47:06,535
We finally found it,
958
00:47:06,535 --> 00:47:08,871
and then we were, like,
looking up at the apartment,
959
00:47:08,871 --> 00:47:09,997
like, "You go first."
960
00:47:09,997 --> 00:47:11,790
And he's like, "No, you go first."
"No, you go first."
961
00:47:11,790 --> 00:47:15,085
And sadly to say, we never went inside.
962
00:47:17,296 --> 00:47:20,716
PERSON 9: "James Kurisunkal Is Interning
At New York Magazine. "
963
00:47:20,716 --> 00:47:25,053
"James Kurdistan's 'Aw Shucks' Persona
Is So Patently False."
964
00:47:25,053 --> 00:47:28,765
"Park Avenue Peerage:
A PR-Seeking Socialite's Best Friend."
965
00:47:28,765 --> 00:47:32,895
"James Kurisunkal's Humbly
Fabulous Beginnings."
966
00:47:32,895 --> 00:47:35,397
There were moments
when I would be aware
967
00:47:35,397 --> 00:47:40,319
that I was not accepted,
like those articles in Gawker.
968
00:47:42,446 --> 00:47:45,157
ZACKARY:
Do you remember James Kurisunkal?
969
00:47:45,908 --> 00:47:47,201
No.
970
00:47:47,201 --> 00:47:49,119
ZACKARY:
Can I read you one of the posts?
971
00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:50,829
Yeah, do it. Do it.
972
00:47:51,413 --> 00:47:52,414
'Kay.
973
00:47:53,332 --> 00:47:56,543
ZACKARY: "James is secretly
or not quite secretly enough,
974
00:47:56,543 --> 00:47:58,921
"a total player
with a very inflated opinion
975
00:47:58,921 --> 00:48:00,797
"of his own importance.
976
00:48:00,797 --> 00:48:05,594
"Mr. Kurisunkal said that he is delighted
in working at New York Magazine,
977
00:48:05,594 --> 00:48:08,388
"which he called 'very horizontal
in the way it's run.'
978
00:48:09,014 --> 00:48:12,059
"We wondered how horizontal
New York Magazine really is,
979
00:48:12,059 --> 00:48:16,355
"so we asked a staffer there who said,
'Well, it's not Vanity Fair,
980
00:48:16,355 --> 00:48:19,399
"'but I mean he's a fucking
fact-checking intern,
981
00:48:19,399 --> 00:48:22,402
which is even lower on the totem pole
than regular interns.'"
982
00:48:23,028 --> 00:48:24,696
I wrote that?
983
00:48:24,696 --> 00:48:25,948
ZACKARY: Yeah, you did.
984
00:48:25,948 --> 00:48:26,865
Wow. That's--
985
00:48:26,865 --> 00:48:30,536
I mean, I'm impressed that I talked
to a New York Magazine staffer.
986
00:48:30,536 --> 00:48:31,620
[laughs]
987
00:48:34,748 --> 00:48:37,125
It's weird.
Even as you read it back to me,
988
00:48:37,125 --> 00:48:39,628
I have zero memory of writing it.
989
00:48:40,212 --> 00:48:43,674
I don't want to let myself off the hook
too easily about any of this.
990
00:48:44,174 --> 00:48:49,304
It's true that I was young
and a cog in a machine,
991
00:48:49,721 --> 00:48:52,015
but I could've made different choices.
992
00:48:52,015 --> 00:48:53,350
I mean, I had free will.
993
00:48:53,976 --> 00:48:56,353
It was very unclear to me
that these were real people
994
00:48:56,353 --> 00:48:57,896
and not like characters in a book.
995
00:48:57,896 --> 00:49:00,357
Like, we made them into characters
for the internet,
996
00:49:00,357 --> 00:49:04,278
but, like, there was no sense
that I was, like, writing something
997
00:49:04,278 --> 00:49:08,574
that would a-affect someone's actual life.
998
00:49:09,283 --> 00:49:11,159
James was an easy target.
999
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:17,291
MORGAN: I started feeling so many
terrible things about myself
1000
00:49:17,291 --> 00:49:21,753
where I would be very aware
of the fact that, um,
1001
00:49:21,753 --> 00:49:25,591
you know, I came from
a background that
1002
00:49:26,383 --> 00:49:27,885
was different than theirs.
1003
00:49:27,885 --> 00:49:31,221
And that was it. Really, that was it,
1004
00:49:31,221 --> 00:49:34,349
that I came from a background
that was unfamiliar to them.
1005
00:49:37,561 --> 00:49:40,606
BEN: I think for James it must have been
like him being thrown into a shark tank
1006
00:49:40,606 --> 00:49:41,815
to be in the actual world
1007
00:49:41,815 --> 00:49:44,735
because being anonymous is very useful,
it protects you.
1008
00:49:44,735 --> 00:49:47,237
And once you have that armor
taken away from you
1009
00:49:47,237 --> 00:49:49,406
and you have to swim for yourself,
1010
00:49:49,406 --> 00:49:52,743
I think sometimes you can find
that there's no one there to help you.
1011
00:49:52,743 --> 00:49:55,871
He was very young
and he didn't really know
1012
00:49:55,871 --> 00:49:59,082
the codes of behavior
a-and how to navigate that world.
1013
00:49:59,082 --> 00:50:01,418
And it has to be said.
It's a very white world.
1014
00:50:01,418 --> 00:50:04,838
So, you know, as the child of immigrants,
he really stood out.
1015
00:50:07,883 --> 00:50:10,594
After New York Magazine,
he had this internship,
1016
00:50:10,594 --> 00:50:12,763
which involved him
being in the Hamptons.
1017
00:50:13,514 --> 00:50:16,517
CASEY:
He was staying with his boss at the time.
1018
00:50:16,517 --> 00:50:21,855
And as we all know, the Hamptons
is maybe not the place to be
1019
00:50:21,855 --> 00:50:25,317
if you look anything
other than white and wealthy.
1020
00:50:26,777 --> 00:50:30,739
MORGAN: I ended up living
with this very racist woman.
1021
00:50:30,739 --> 00:50:35,160
There were all sorts of elements
that led this person to not like me.
1022
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:40,582
It was the brown,
it was the gay, it was the male.
1023
00:50:40,582 --> 00:50:45,254
It was the fact that, like, I was where
it took her 20 years to get to,
1024
00:50:45,254 --> 00:50:47,464
but I was still, again, a teenager.
1025
00:50:49,925 --> 00:50:53,679
CASEY: According to James,
there was some sort of altercation.
1026
00:50:55,264 --> 00:50:59,893
She was like, "You know why
I don't want you around here."
1027
00:50:59,893 --> 00:51:02,062
She's like, "You know what you are."
1028
00:51:03,188 --> 00:51:06,191
And I'm like, "What is that?"
And she's like, "You're a fucking--"
1029
00:51:06,191 --> 00:51:11,071
I do recall that. Yeah, he did tell me
that she call him the N-word
1030
00:51:11,071 --> 00:51:14,074
and, uh, he was very hurt by that.
1031
00:51:14,074 --> 00:51:15,534
Very shocked and very hurt by that.
1032
00:51:16,326 --> 00:51:18,996
MORGAN:
I always knew I was an outsider.
1033
00:51:18,996 --> 00:51:23,876
But it wasn't until someone like that
saying that to my face
1034
00:51:23,876 --> 00:51:29,548
when it all became so apparent
that what a dark world that, that is.
1035
00:51:30,716 --> 00:51:35,262
And it's nothing that I want
anything to do with.
1036
00:51:35,762 --> 00:51:37,347
CASEY:
It was cute from afar,
1037
00:51:37,347 --> 00:51:40,225
you know, him being
in the little dorm room at U of I
1038
00:51:40,225 --> 00:51:43,729
and writing about them.
That's a cute story. That's a great story.
1039
00:51:43,729 --> 00:51:46,773
But the actual reality
of him trying to join them
1040
00:51:46,773 --> 00:51:49,568
and be amongst them
and almost be like a peer with them,
1041
00:51:49,568 --> 00:51:52,362
that's not something that would happen,
that could possibly happen,
1042
00:51:52,362 --> 00:51:53,572
and it didn't happen.
1043
00:51:53,572 --> 00:51:57,951
Yeah... I would say that's where
the fantasy fell apart.
1044
00:52:00,329 --> 00:52:06,293
ZACKARY: Did you know that James had
a difficult time emotionally, that summer?
1045
00:52:06,293 --> 00:52:08,003
Yeah, I remember that.
1046
00:52:08,003 --> 00:52:10,964
You know, he had a--
It was-- Something happened there.
1047
00:52:10,964 --> 00:52:13,383
He said, "I'm coming back to Chicago."
I said, "Okay."
1048
00:52:13,383 --> 00:52:14,426
I sent him the ticket.
1049
00:52:14,426 --> 00:52:16,470
So, he came back.
1050
00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:19,723
He was a little upset for a few days.
Then after that--
1051
00:52:19,723 --> 00:52:21,600
"Why are people are like this, Mommy?"
1052
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,436
I said, "You know,
there are different kind of people.
1053
00:52:24,436 --> 00:52:27,689
So, in your life
you will see lot of thing."
1054
00:52:32,319 --> 00:52:35,864
JAMES:
"Park Avenue Peerage, February 5, 2010.
1055
00:52:35,864 --> 00:52:39,409
"My website is soil in which
I can sift through with my hands.
1056
00:52:40,536 --> 00:52:43,247
"This is my final post
on Park Avenue Peerage.
1057
00:52:44,248 --> 00:52:45,999
"The last three years
have been such a ride
1058
00:52:45,999 --> 00:52:47,960
"and I was very happy to entertain.
1059
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,130
"A great deal of people that come to PAP
are here for Tinsley Mortimer.
1060
00:52:52,130 --> 00:52:55,008
"Mostly, I'd like to thank my readers.
1061
00:52:55,008 --> 00:52:57,553
"I'm no longer fascinated by this world.
1062
00:52:58,136 --> 00:53:02,140
"I'm not impressed.
In fact, I'm depressed.
1063
00:53:02,140 --> 00:53:04,852
God bless, James."
1064
00:53:07,479 --> 00:53:09,106
TINSLEY:
My name is Tinsley Mortimer.
1065
00:53:09,106 --> 00:53:12,150
♪ All the Right Moves
by OneRepublic playing ♪
1066
00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:13,735
People call me a socialite.
1067
00:53:13,735 --> 00:53:15,487
♪ So, yeah, we're goin' down ♪
1068
00:53:15,487 --> 00:53:17,948
PAUL JOHNSON CALDERON: It really is
a rat race in the New York social world.
1069
00:53:17,948 --> 00:53:19,116
♪
1070
00:53:19,116 --> 00:53:23,954
High Society was definitely not...
the show that wa-- it was set out to be.
1071
00:53:24,246 --> 00:53:25,414
But the real story...
1072
00:53:25,414 --> 00:53:29,209
Reality TV was a little too early.
People were very judgmental.
1073
00:53:29,209 --> 00:53:30,460
The economic crash,
1074
00:53:30,460 --> 00:53:32,254
it really kind of happened,
like, around then
1075
00:53:32,254 --> 00:53:36,383
and people didn't want to see people
having some glamorous-y type of life.
1076
00:53:36,383 --> 00:53:38,635
That also wasn't really what the show
was supposed to be about.
1077
00:53:38,635 --> 00:53:42,890
It wasn't supposed to look like
we are total brats in, like, this world,
1078
00:53:42,890 --> 00:53:47,060
it-- but it kind of elevated that
and pushed that as a, as a thing.
1079
00:53:47,060 --> 00:53:49,688
So, it was terrifying.
1080
00:53:49,688 --> 00:53:50,647
We will never be friends now.
1081
00:53:50,856 --> 00:53:53,358
I just pulled back
tremendously afterwards.
1082
00:53:53,358 --> 00:53:54,818
I-- It was-- I was burnt out.
1083
00:53:54,818 --> 00:53:58,071
I mean, that, mixed with
all the other stuff I had done,
1084
00:53:58,071 --> 00:54:01,074
all that stuff I just thought
I just need to take a break,
1085
00:54:01,074 --> 00:54:03,243
um, and I just didn't really
do much for a while.
1086
00:54:04,161 --> 00:54:06,496
So, I don't remember
communicating with James so much
1087
00:54:06,496 --> 00:54:09,416
while-- I mean,
I think even after it was over,
1088
00:54:09,416 --> 00:54:12,419
we still were friends
and I was still talking to him.
1089
00:54:13,086 --> 00:54:15,214
And then I just lost touch with him.
1090
00:54:16,423 --> 00:54:19,259
ZACKARY:
Why did your friendship with Tinsley end?
1091
00:54:19,259 --> 00:54:20,969
I don't believe it ended.
1092
00:54:21,428 --> 00:54:23,555
Um, I think it just paused
for a little bit.
1093
00:54:23,555 --> 00:54:27,100
She had a television show
that she had been working on,
1094
00:54:27,100 --> 00:54:31,897
um, that took a very--
it took her away from a lot of her friends
1095
00:54:32,481 --> 00:54:36,735
and that's why, you know,
we didn't really stay in communication.
1096
00:54:37,486 --> 00:54:41,240
In this weird way,
like, I was a member of that world
1097
00:54:41,240 --> 00:54:43,325
and she was a dear friend of mine
1098
00:54:43,325 --> 00:54:47,329
and... I felt like I was
no longer important.
1099
00:54:48,705 --> 00:54:52,501
And... that was very, like, hurtful
1100
00:54:53,585 --> 00:54:55,254
because, like,
1101
00:54:56,839 --> 00:54:58,257
it wasn't that I looked up to her,
1102
00:54:58,257 --> 00:55:01,635
it was just that, like,
she depended so much on me
1103
00:55:01,635 --> 00:55:04,888
and then all of a sudden,
it was like she just didn't care.
1104
00:55:07,015 --> 00:55:10,644
♪
1105
00:55:10,644 --> 00:55:11,895
I'd flunked out of U of I
1106
00:55:11,895 --> 00:55:14,606
because I had been so focused
on New York.
1107
00:55:18,068 --> 00:55:22,114
I went from weighing, like, you know,
200-something to a 100-something,
1108
00:55:22,114 --> 00:55:25,284
but doing it all through starvation
and cocaine usage.
1109
00:55:27,995 --> 00:55:32,457
CASEY: It was, yeah, pills
and cocaine and ecstasy.
1110
00:55:33,667 --> 00:55:37,045
It became apparent more and more
as we kept hanging out.
1111
00:55:38,338 --> 00:55:40,048
And at the same time also
1112
00:55:40,048 --> 00:55:45,846
he was very into someone named Tommy.
1113
00:55:46,847 --> 00:55:50,434
MORGAN:
"Tommy. 07/24/10.
1114
00:55:50,434 --> 00:55:51,894
"I guess I'm getting desperate
1115
00:55:51,894 --> 00:55:55,022
because I emailed
that hot drug dealer last night."
1116
00:55:55,022 --> 00:56:00,402
He was like the skateboarder,
pot grower, tattoo artist, bad boy,
1117
00:56:00,402 --> 00:56:01,820
and we just kind of clicked.
1118
00:56:02,446 --> 00:56:05,490
"When he met me, he gave me $40 in cash
1119
00:56:05,490 --> 00:56:09,119
"and $40 worth of the best weed in town.
1120
00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:13,332
"He also promised to give me
free ecstasy pills, lol.
1121
00:56:13,332 --> 00:56:17,628
"He claims he's straight
and looks and acts very straight.
1122
00:56:17,628 --> 00:56:22,549
But for some reason, the waxing moon,
I thought of him last night."
1123
00:56:22,549 --> 00:56:26,136
I didn't get the impression
that they hung out necessarily.
1124
00:56:26,136 --> 00:56:30,182
It was just more James
kind of like lusting after him.
1125
00:56:30,849 --> 00:56:33,101
MORGAN: "07/23/11.
1126
00:56:33,101 --> 00:56:37,397
"We've never kissed,
you've never held my hand.
1127
00:56:37,397 --> 00:56:41,985
I've never given so much of myself
to anyone or anything."
1128
00:56:42,653 --> 00:56:44,321
CASEY:
James latched on
1129
00:56:44,321 --> 00:56:48,158
and it got to a point
where the obsession was a lot.
1130
00:56:48,158 --> 00:56:49,618
It was a lot. It was a lot to hear.
1131
00:56:49,618 --> 00:56:53,372
It was a lot to see my friend
obsessing over someone
1132
00:56:53,372 --> 00:56:56,333
who clearly had no interest in him at all,
1133
00:56:56,333 --> 00:56:59,461
but was willing to accept
anything that James gave.
1134
00:56:59,837 --> 00:57:03,590
He took credit cards out
and was doing cash advances
1135
00:57:03,590 --> 00:57:07,386
and, um, giving envelopes of money,
1136
00:57:07,386 --> 00:57:10,055
just leaving it on Tommy's doorstep.
1137
00:57:10,055 --> 00:57:13,183
You know, at that time I had, um--
I was very free
1138
00:57:13,183 --> 00:57:16,562
with, like, things that I had access to,
like funds and things.
1139
00:57:16,562 --> 00:57:19,565
And I found that he was misappropriating
1140
00:57:19,565 --> 00:57:21,942
a lot of the funds
that I had made available to him
1141
00:57:21,942 --> 00:57:26,989
and using them in... not... good ways.
1142
00:57:26,989 --> 00:57:28,949
ZACKARY:
Where'd the money come from?
1143
00:57:29,658 --> 00:57:32,828
I was borrowing against
my own inheritance.
1144
00:57:33,787 --> 00:57:38,417
So, um, it was like funds that were
appropriated for me eventually,
1145
00:57:38,417 --> 00:57:40,752
but I was just taking it really early on.
1146
00:57:40,752 --> 00:57:42,087
[giggles]
1147
00:57:42,087 --> 00:57:43,130
ZACKARY: From your parents?
1148
00:57:43,130 --> 00:57:44,590
Yeah.
1149
00:57:44,590 --> 00:57:48,719
It was like $300,000
when I was, like, 19 years old. You know?
1150
00:57:49,970 --> 00:57:52,723
ZACKARY:
Did that affect your parents' finances?
1151
00:57:52,723 --> 00:57:55,058
Did they file for bankruptcy?
1152
00:57:56,059 --> 00:57:57,728
Uh, yeah, they did.
1153
00:58:03,609 --> 00:58:05,444
CASEY:
I was really confused by it
1154
00:58:05,444 --> 00:58:08,697
and no matter how much I said, like,
"You need to stop.
1155
00:58:08,697 --> 00:58:12,701
Like, stop giving him money.
Like, just leave it alone, move on,"
1156
00:58:12,701 --> 00:58:14,745
it, it didn't really matter.
1157
00:58:14,745 --> 00:58:19,958
It really sucked because
I knew who he could be.
1158
00:58:19,958 --> 00:58:22,669
I knew who we were together,
like, how much fun we had,
1159
00:58:22,669 --> 00:58:24,379
how carefree we were,
1160
00:58:24,379 --> 00:58:27,883
how creative he was,
and how charismatic he was.
1161
00:58:27,883 --> 00:58:32,721
Like, he could make friends with anyone
just, like, win anybody over.
1162
00:58:32,721 --> 00:58:38,519
But at that time, it was Tommy and pills
and cocaine and ecstasy
1163
00:58:38,519 --> 00:58:40,187
to the point where--
1164
00:58:42,064 --> 00:58:46,527
Yeah, I guess that was, like, the catalyst
to ending our friendship. Yeah.
1165
00:58:50,656 --> 00:58:53,408
MORGAN: And it just made me, like,
not want to write anymore,
1166
00:58:53,408 --> 00:58:54,618
be myself anymore.
1167
00:58:54,618 --> 00:58:56,995
It just made me really want to shut down.
1168
00:58:58,622 --> 00:59:00,791
I overdosed three times that
1169
00:59:00,791 --> 00:59:03,919
I was hospitalized
three times that summer.
1170
00:59:03,919 --> 00:59:06,171
I'd reached a weight that was so low.
1171
00:59:06,171 --> 00:59:10,717
I wasn't eating just because I was so sad
by the situation that I was in.
1172
00:59:10,717 --> 00:59:13,512
Like, the one choice that I made
as a free adult,
1173
00:59:14,263 --> 00:59:18,350
was a really bad choice
and I really felt that, so
1174
00:59:24,565 --> 00:59:26,024
it's really fucking painful.
1175
00:59:26,024 --> 00:59:28,318
Like, I feel like I'm gonna
break down right now.
1176
00:59:28,318 --> 00:59:30,404
[inhales, deep exhale]
1177
00:59:30,404 --> 00:59:31,905
ZACKARY:
Thank you so much.
1178
00:59:31,905 --> 00:59:34,533
Of course. I did not know
you even knew about that stuff.
1179
00:59:34,533 --> 00:59:36,535
- What?
- That whole "Tommy" shit.
1180
00:59:36,535 --> 00:59:38,745
I did not know you guys
were going to bring that up.
1181
00:59:38,745 --> 00:59:40,080
- It's okay.
- The bankruptcy stuff.
1182
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,040
Oh, my God. I'm so embarrassed.
1183
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,169
- It's not embarrassing.
- I feel like fucking crying right now.
1184
00:59:45,169 --> 00:59:47,087
Like, I'm so ashamed of that shit.
1185
00:59:47,087 --> 00:59:48,463
You don't have to be, girl.
1186
00:59:48,463 --> 00:59:51,008
- I am.
- It's a no-shame zone.
1187
00:59:51,008 --> 00:59:53,427
And, you know, things happen to us, and--
1188
00:59:53,427 --> 00:59:55,304
MORGAN:
Like, I made some stupid-ass choices.
1189
00:59:55,304 --> 00:59:57,139
That's fucking pathetic and sad.
1190
00:59:57,139 --> 01:00:01,393
It's not. It's naive,
but young people are naive.
1191
01:00:02,853 --> 01:00:05,480
Yeah, I keep forgetting
I was like 18 years old.
1192
01:00:05,981 --> 01:00:09,860
I didn't-- I never had a boyfriend
before that. You know? [laughs]
1193
01:00:10,485 --> 01:00:12,946
- Yeah.
- But still...
1194
01:00:12,946 --> 01:00:15,490
It's all in your writing.
1195
01:00:15,490 --> 01:00:18,410
In your-- In a way, you know,
it's like a-- you can tell.
1196
01:00:18,410 --> 01:00:21,121
- What do you mean?
- That you were being taken advantage of.
1197
01:00:21,121 --> 01:00:22,748
That you were in love.
1198
01:00:22,748 --> 01:00:25,626
- Aw. [inaudible] you a crown.
- You know?
1199
01:00:25,626 --> 01:00:26,835
[Zackary chuckles]
1200
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:29,922
It's hard to, like, answer to someone.
1201
01:00:29,922 --> 01:00:31,507
It's hard to answer on film.
1202
01:00:31,507 --> 01:00:33,675
It's hard to answer to an audience
1203
01:00:33,675 --> 01:00:36,929
that's not even aware of these sins
that I'd committed. You know?
1204
01:00:36,929 --> 01:00:39,515
I did cheat my family.
I did cheat my parents.
1205
01:00:39,515 --> 01:00:41,642
I did lie to them.
1206
01:00:41,642 --> 01:00:44,144
I'd never forgiven myself for that.
1207
01:00:46,522 --> 01:00:48,315
I hope that you will.
1208
01:00:48,315 --> 01:00:49,816
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
1209
01:00:49,816 --> 01:00:54,530
I hope that looking at those things
and letting them exist in the light
1210
01:00:54,530 --> 01:00:58,401
allows them to diminish
the power that it has.
1211
01:01:00,869 --> 01:01:03,247
♪ upbeat music playing ♪
1212
01:01:12,881 --> 01:01:16,426
ZACKARY: There she is...
MORGAN: Hi. How are you?
1213
01:01:16,426 --> 01:01:20,055
ZACKARY:
...the light of my life. [laughs] Aw.
1214
01:01:20,055 --> 01:01:21,515
MORGAN:
I literally just woke up right now.
1215
01:01:21,515 --> 01:01:24,434
ZACKARY: Ooh, girl.
MORGAN: You have no idea.
1216
01:01:24,434 --> 01:01:27,104
Girl, okay, I'll do your makeup.
1217
01:01:27,104 --> 01:01:29,898
- MORGAN: Okay, cool.
- I have breakfast for you.
1218
01:01:29,898 --> 01:01:32,234
MORGAN: Oh!
ZACKARY: We'll do it in here.
1219
01:01:32,234 --> 01:01:33,318
MORGAN: Okay.
1220
01:01:34,486 --> 01:01:35,946
ZACKARY:
Do you know your neighbor?
1221
01:01:35,946 --> 01:01:41,451
This lady above me was like,
"I can't live in such a space."
1222
01:01:41,451 --> 01:01:44,371
I'd only have, like, two or three guys
come in every night.
1223
01:01:44,371 --> 01:01:47,958
It wasn't like I was having, like,
an orgy every fucking day.
1224
01:01:49,334 --> 01:01:52,254
Gone. Like, how has my life fallen?
ZACKARY: Yeah.
1225
01:01:52,254 --> 01:01:55,090
MORGAN: Because I fell in love
with that guy, Tommy.
1226
01:01:55,090 --> 01:01:57,176
How did that go?
1227
01:01:57,176 --> 01:02:00,679
This is why I do fucking decrepit things
like sex work and shit,
1228
01:02:00,679 --> 01:02:02,514
'cause I don't get money otherwise.
1229
01:02:03,307 --> 01:02:05,267
I didn't start doing this until I was--
1230
01:02:05,267 --> 01:02:10,314
I realized that my parents weren't ever
giving money again--
1231
01:02:10,314 --> 01:02:12,983
ZACKARY:
So, when, when you're putting these
1232
01:02:12,983 --> 01:02:17,905
in this whole photo gallery together,
like, what is the story,
1233
01:02:17,905 --> 01:02:19,072
in your mind?
1234
01:02:19,072 --> 01:02:22,326
MORGAN: Here's like, this really
beautiful girl who's like a princess,
1235
01:02:22,326 --> 01:02:24,161
and then you have a little bio.
1236
01:02:24,161 --> 01:02:27,831
ZACKARY:
"Baby girl. Your dream cum true." C-U-M.
1237
01:02:27,831 --> 01:02:31,126
"Gorgeous, sweet, and a true prince--"
See, I've always known
1238
01:02:31,126 --> 01:02:34,338
[Morgan laughing]
your brilliant writing
1239
01:02:34,338 --> 01:02:40,093
is, like, being... used
in clandestine places.
1240
01:02:40,093 --> 01:02:42,971
"College educated, former fashion model...
1241
01:02:42,971 --> 01:02:46,767
- Oh! This is true.
- ...with 38DDD breasts." [laughs]
1242
01:02:46,767 --> 01:02:49,895
This is true. I have, like,
I have 950CC bras.
1243
01:02:49,895 --> 01:02:52,689
"And the biggest booty known to man.
1244
01:02:52,689 --> 01:02:55,108
You will join me again
and again and again."
1245
01:02:55,108 --> 01:02:56,235
Woo!
1246
01:02:57,027 --> 01:03:00,197
ZACKARY:
"Classy and elegant, but wild and freaky.
1247
01:03:00,197 --> 01:03:05,244
The knockout girl of your dreams
is here, motherfuckers."
1248
01:03:05,244 --> 01:03:06,912
You have to lie just a little.
1249
01:03:06,912 --> 01:03:09,081
Okay, well, you're not 24.
1250
01:03:09,081 --> 01:03:11,667
Okay, whatever. That's my hoe age.
1251
01:03:11,667 --> 01:03:15,295
You say that you're 5'9" here
and you say you're 5'7" here.
1252
01:03:15,295 --> 01:03:18,674
Whatever. These guys
are not noticing discrepancies.
1253
01:03:18,674 --> 01:03:21,093
And right behind here, I keep my journal.
1254
01:03:23,178 --> 01:03:26,223
ZACKARY:
Oh, you wrote. You've been writing?
1255
01:03:26,223 --> 01:03:27,432
MORGAN:
Kind of.
1256
01:03:27,432 --> 01:03:30,519
This is actual writing. On the page.
1257
01:03:30,519 --> 01:03:34,690
"There was this beautiful,
haunted, charmed life I led
1258
01:03:34,690 --> 01:03:39,486
"in the... confines of New York
so quickly and ardently
1259
01:03:39,486 --> 01:03:40,863
"and they embraced me.
1260
01:03:40,863 --> 01:03:46,493
"So natural a fit, it felt no training
could prep them for me.
1261
01:03:46,493 --> 01:03:51,039
"To see some nearly all resolute
to brute-based behavior--
1262
01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:52,666
- Mm-hm.
- "reaction,
1263
01:03:52,666 --> 01:03:56,753
made me see
the carnivorous mammal in them."
1264
01:03:56,753 --> 01:03:59,339
T. S. Eliot would be so lucky.
1265
01:03:59,339 --> 01:04:01,967
[both laughing]
1266
01:04:02,718 --> 01:04:04,178
What's this one?
1267
01:04:04,178 --> 01:04:07,389
"Dear Tinsley,
thank you for being the kaleidoscope
1268
01:04:07,389 --> 01:04:09,474
"through which I saw the world.
1269
01:04:09,474 --> 01:04:11,643
"Thank you for being my friend.
1270
01:04:11,643 --> 01:04:15,981
"Thank you for teaching me about,
and sharing with me
1271
01:04:15,981 --> 01:04:18,984
"the evolution of fantasy to reality.
1272
01:04:19,610 --> 01:04:24,031
Blonds always have more fun.
Nothing can stop us."
1273
01:04:25,115 --> 01:04:27,451
'Cause at the time,
I felt like a lot of her life
1274
01:04:27,451 --> 01:04:29,912
- was like, being red-lighted.
- Yeah.
1275
01:04:29,912 --> 01:04:32,456
Like, she couldn't be
who she wanted to be.
1276
01:04:32,956 --> 01:04:34,249
- Yeah.
- And I-I really--
1277
01:04:34,249 --> 01:04:36,043
I always related to her on that respect.
1278
01:04:36,043 --> 01:04:38,378
Like, she really just wanted
to be someone else
1279
01:04:38,378 --> 01:04:40,714
that the world wouldn't let her be.
1280
01:04:41,048 --> 01:04:43,967
♪ somber music playing ♪
1281
01:04:48,222 --> 01:04:51,350
COURI: So, at some point,
Tinsley stopped listening
1282
01:04:52,643 --> 01:04:55,604
and she decided to become self-directed.
1283
01:04:55,604 --> 01:04:58,815
And this-- I believe that
without proper guidance
1284
01:04:58,815 --> 01:05:00,776
it can go all wrong.
1285
01:05:00,776 --> 01:05:02,361
It's like driving drunk.
1286
01:05:02,361 --> 01:05:04,988
It's just not advisable.
1287
01:05:06,281 --> 01:05:07,616
And so, I let her go.
1288
01:05:07,616 --> 01:05:12,621
I let her off-leash and I regret it
because I think I could've guided her
1289
01:05:12,621 --> 01:05:15,582
through what I think
was her eventual downfall.
1290
01:05:15,582 --> 01:05:18,335
I mean, let's face it, no one went higher
1291
01:05:18,335 --> 01:05:20,379
and fell further down than Tinsley.
1292
01:05:20,379 --> 01:05:23,924
What was she arrested
on the lawn of a boyfriend?
1293
01:05:23,924 --> 01:05:26,218
Uh, you know, a fancy boyfriend at that.
1294
01:05:28,011 --> 01:05:31,515
REPORTER: In April of 2016,
Mortimer was arrested for trespassing
1295
01:05:31,515 --> 01:05:33,851
at the Palm Beach home
of her ex-boyfriend,
1296
01:05:33,851 --> 01:05:35,811
Alexander "Nico" Fanjul.
1297
01:05:35,811 --> 01:05:39,523
A day later, the news went public
and her mugshot became tabloid fodder.
1298
01:05:39,523 --> 01:05:42,150
We got in a big fight
and I couldn't get my bag back.
1299
01:05:42,150 --> 01:05:44,695
So I, I called the police
to help me get the bag back.
1300
01:05:44,695 --> 01:05:46,947
That's when I found out
that they could arrest me
1301
01:05:46,947 --> 01:05:49,241
for being on the property,
which was complete shock to me.
1302
01:05:49,241 --> 01:05:52,286
Public records show authorities
have been to the Fanjul home
1303
01:05:52,286 --> 01:05:53,829
to break up savage fights.
1304
01:05:53,829 --> 01:05:56,039
After one on Christmas 2013,
1305
01:05:56,039 --> 01:05:58,750
Mortimer was hospitalized
with head lacerations.
1306
01:05:59,710 --> 01:06:01,003
TINSLEY:
That relationship ended.
1307
01:06:01,003 --> 01:06:03,505
And it ended up putting me
in a place in my life
1308
01:06:03,505 --> 01:06:07,092
that I was so low and felt that,
1309
01:06:07,092 --> 01:06:10,721
you know, I was so unfairly sort of
accused of this situation
1310
01:06:10,721 --> 01:06:11,972
that really was not the truth.
1311
01:06:11,972 --> 01:06:14,558
And again, in that position
where you're like,
1312
01:06:14,558 --> 01:06:16,602
the press is saying one thing,
this is not the truth.
1313
01:06:16,602 --> 01:06:18,520
And you sort of feel like
you're fighting for your life
1314
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:19,897
and you're trying to explain yourself.
1315
01:06:19,897 --> 01:06:20,898
[indistinct chatter]
1316
01:06:20,898 --> 01:06:22,482
- PERSON 1: I like your outfit.
- Thank you.
1317
01:06:22,482 --> 01:06:24,234
- PERSON 2: Look nice today, Tinsley.
- Thanks.
1318
01:06:26,069 --> 01:06:28,197
Looking back now
to all the things that I did,
1319
01:06:28,197 --> 01:06:30,324
it was so glamorous and fun
1320
01:06:30,324 --> 01:06:33,410
and a lot of, you know, things
have been tough, a little bit recently.
1321
01:06:33,410 --> 01:06:36,288
And so, um, it's nice to see that girl
that was, like, super confident
1322
01:06:36,288 --> 01:06:39,208
and, um, it's-- it has--
it's been nice to kind of
1323
01:06:39,208 --> 01:06:42,753
try to remember that girl
and to, hopefully,
1324
01:06:42,753 --> 01:06:44,671
you know, do something like that again.
1325
01:06:44,671 --> 01:06:45,797
[sniffles]
1326
01:06:45,797 --> 01:06:46,965
Sorry.
1327
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:52,638
KELLY:
This concept of fame, it's a burden.
1328
01:06:52,638 --> 01:06:54,681
Just because somebody's pretty
and a size two
1329
01:06:54,681 --> 01:06:56,433
and they have a hundred million dollars--
1330
01:06:56,934 --> 01:07:00,979
I hate to say it, but I mean
there have been plenty of socialites,
1331
01:07:00,979 --> 01:07:05,692
you know, who've died, like unfortunately,
you know, that appear to have everything.
1332
01:07:05,692 --> 01:07:07,194
And then they're still unhappy.
1333
01:07:07,194 --> 01:07:10,405
[indistinct chatter]
1334
01:07:10,405 --> 01:07:14,409
REPORTER: She was young, beautiful,
and an heiress to an empire.
1335
01:07:14,409 --> 01:07:18,914
Now, Casey Johnson's sudden death
has many asking how and why.
1336
01:07:19,748 --> 01:07:24,461
COURI: Casey Johnson
is the saddest socialite story
1337
01:07:24,461 --> 01:07:26,296
that has ever been written.
1338
01:07:26,296 --> 01:07:28,215
It was about too much money.
1339
01:07:28,215 --> 01:07:30,801
Casey just couldn't control herself.
1340
01:07:31,510 --> 01:07:34,596
BEN: Casey was the daughter
of the Johnson & Johnson empire.
1341
01:07:34,596 --> 01:07:37,933
Her father, Woody Johnson,
owner of the Jets football team,
1342
01:07:37,933 --> 01:07:40,102
later Trump's ambassador to London.
1343
01:07:40,102 --> 01:07:41,854
Very big, very powerful family.
1344
01:07:42,437 --> 01:07:45,524
When the concept for
The Simple Life was first mooted,
1345
01:07:45,524 --> 01:07:49,152
it was going to be Paris Hilton
and Casey Johnson as the second girl.
1346
01:07:49,152 --> 01:07:51,280
And Casey decided not to do it
1347
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:54,366
because she wanted to move to Los Angeles
and become a serious actress.
1348
01:07:54,366 --> 01:07:57,286
And she said later that
she regretting that decision.
1349
01:07:57,286 --> 01:07:59,997
PHOTOGRAPHER 1: Ladies!
PHOTOGRAPHER 2: To your right, ladies.
To the right, please!
1350
01:07:59,997 --> 01:08:02,541
BEN: She was bisexual.
She had many girlfriends in Los Angeles.
1351
01:08:02,541 --> 01:08:06,545
She hooked up with Tila Tequila,
who was a reality star of the moment.
1352
01:08:06,545 --> 01:08:10,716
And the two made a number of very flashy,
quite vulgar appearances on red carpets,
1353
01:08:10,716 --> 01:08:12,926
which of course, they lapped up.
1354
01:08:12,926 --> 01:08:14,094
Unfortunately, at the time,
1355
01:08:14,094 --> 01:08:17,097
she was also using drugs
and alcohol to excess.
1356
01:08:17,097 --> 01:08:20,309
[indistinct chatter]
1357
01:08:20,309 --> 01:08:23,520
BEN: And unfortunately, not long
afterwards, she died in her bed
1358
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,731
because she wasn't monitoring
her health conditions.
1359
01:08:25,731 --> 01:08:27,191
PERSON:
Hi, ladies.
1360
01:08:27,191 --> 01:08:29,401
KELLY: She never told people
that she was a Johnson.
1361
01:08:29,401 --> 01:08:32,404
She was just this cool, little, blonde
girl who was, like, super dope,
1362
01:08:32,404 --> 01:08:35,115
who was, like, a total troublemaker.
1363
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:37,492
I don't know why I'm crying about her.
1364
01:08:37,492 --> 01:08:39,620
She was the coolest girl ever, right?
1365
01:08:39,620 --> 01:08:43,874
So... I don't think that happiness
and money or the way that you look
1366
01:08:43,874 --> 01:08:45,459
has anything to do with any of it.
1367
01:08:45,459 --> 01:08:47,044
I think it's a big lie.
1368
01:08:50,047 --> 01:08:53,550
EMILY: So, about halfway through
my Gawker career,
1369
01:08:53,550 --> 01:08:55,219
my year at Gawker,
1370
01:08:55,219 --> 01:08:59,890
I was asked to be a guest
on an episode of Larry King Live
1371
01:08:59,890 --> 01:09:02,267
that was being guest hosted
by Jimmy Kimmel.
1372
01:09:02,267 --> 01:09:05,604
JIMMY KIMMEL:
Emily Gould. She's the editor of
the website Gawker.com.
1373
01:09:05,604 --> 01:09:07,773
- Hello, Emily.
- Hi, Jimmy.
1374
01:09:07,773 --> 01:09:12,152
And it turned out that Jimmy Kimmel
had some very specific beef with Gawker.
1375
01:09:12,152 --> 01:09:14,613
Gawker had written about him
in a way that he didn't like.
1376
01:09:14,613 --> 01:09:19,117
My problem is, uh, you post things
that simply aren't true on, on the site,
1377
01:09:19,117 --> 01:09:22,079
and you do no checking
on your stories whatsoever.
1378
01:09:22,079 --> 01:09:23,330
I'll give you an example.
1379
01:09:23,330 --> 01:09:26,959
There was a story about me
that popped up on my Google search.
1380
01:09:26,959 --> 01:09:28,877
It said, "Daily Gawker Stalker:
1381
01:09:28,877 --> 01:09:31,755
When Isn't Jimmy Kimmel
Visibly Intoxicated?"
1382
01:09:31,755 --> 01:09:35,884
The Gawker tip line was just flooded
with so many people
1383
01:09:35,884 --> 01:09:39,179
just wanting to tell me what an idiotic,
1384
01:09:39,179 --> 01:09:43,392
teenage, stupid... whore I was.
1385
01:09:43,392 --> 01:09:47,604
And how dare I besmirch
the name of Jimmy Kimmel?
1386
01:09:47,604 --> 01:09:51,316
Honestly, I think that there's
a shifting definition of what is public
1387
01:09:51,316 --> 01:09:54,486
and what is private space for everyone,
not just celebrities.
1388
01:09:54,486 --> 01:09:56,697
The internet, blogs, Myspace.
1389
01:09:56,697 --> 01:09:59,783
No one has the reasonable expectation
of being able to walk down the street
1390
01:09:59,783 --> 01:10:02,870
and not have what they're doing
be noticed by someone anymore.
1391
01:10:02,870 --> 01:10:05,497
Well, that's just-- that is just
a terrible thing though, isn't it?
1392
01:10:05,497 --> 01:10:06,957
- I mean, just--
- Is it really?
1393
01:10:06,957 --> 01:10:08,208
- Yeah, it is.
- I mean, I think it's great
1394
01:10:08,208 --> 01:10:09,710
that we're not putting people
up on a pedestal
1395
01:10:09,710 --> 01:10:10,961
and worshiping them anymore.
1396
01:10:10,961 --> 01:10:12,629
I think it's good that people
are acknowledging
1397
01:10:12,629 --> 01:10:14,882
- that celebrities are real people.
- Yeah, you're throwing rocks
at them though.
1398
01:10:14,882 --> 01:10:17,634
- I mean, that's not--
- It's not okay to say false
things about anyone.
1399
01:10:17,634 --> 01:10:19,636
- I'm not talking about--
- Well, you should check
your website then.
1400
01:10:19,636 --> 01:10:21,054
Thank you for, uh, talking to us.
1401
01:10:21,054 --> 01:10:23,849
Anderson Cooper 360's
on at the top of the hour. Filling in--
1402
01:10:23,849 --> 01:10:25,934
EMILY: I just had, like,
a mini nervous breakdown
1403
01:10:25,934 --> 01:10:29,021
and couldn't go to work,
1404
01:10:29,021 --> 01:10:31,857
like, couldn't really make myself
do anything.
1405
01:10:32,608 --> 01:10:36,361
After I stopped working at Gawker,
I became a target of Gawker.
1406
01:10:36,361 --> 01:10:39,656
It would be funny if it
hadn't been so, you know,
1407
01:10:39,656 --> 01:10:42,784
the same punishment
will be visit on, on you
1408
01:10:42,784 --> 01:10:44,745
that you dished out to so many people.
1409
01:10:44,745 --> 01:10:47,122
You know, and I eventually sort of
had a lot of therapy
1410
01:10:47,122 --> 01:10:48,749
and in some way got over it.
1411
01:10:48,749 --> 01:10:50,417
But it's something that has still like--
1412
01:10:51,793 --> 01:10:55,589
I'm clearly not like, totally okay.
And it's 15 years on.
1413
01:10:57,424 --> 01:11:02,179
[slight chuckle]
Oh, what is this? Wait, what is it? Oh--
1414
01:11:02,179 --> 01:11:06,808
- ZACKARY: It's Morgan.
- Oh! [gasps] Oh, my God.
1415
01:11:06,808 --> 01:11:11,522
She is so... pretty.
I gotta send her some of my lashes.
1416
01:11:11,522 --> 01:11:14,650
Oh, my God. That's--
I mean, I-- Do-- I was like, "Who?"
1417
01:11:14,650 --> 01:11:19,112
I mean, no way. No way.
1418
01:11:19,112 --> 01:11:22,616
Oh, my God. Gorgeous.
1419
01:11:22,616 --> 01:11:24,785
Look at her lips and everything.
Oh, my God, she's so pretty. Oh, my God.
1420
01:11:24,785 --> 01:11:28,288
I really want to meet her.
I got to c-- I got to contact her.
1421
01:11:29,164 --> 01:11:35,128
That is insane. D-Did--
I mean... [softly] oh, my gosh.
1422
01:11:36,213 --> 01:11:40,008
So cute. Oh, my gosh.
1423
01:11:40,008 --> 01:11:43,345
Holy cow! Gorgeous. How-- Amazing!
1424
01:11:43,345 --> 01:11:46,598
I mean, sorry. I'm so shocked.
1425
01:11:46,598 --> 01:11:51,228
Wow! I mean the little cute boy
that came over to me-- Oh, my God.
1426
01:11:51,228 --> 01:11:53,522
That's cra-- That's incredible.
That's amazing.
1427
01:11:57,276 --> 01:11:58,986
[phone ringing]
1428
01:11:59,444 --> 01:12:01,071
TINSLEY [on phone]: Hello?
1429
01:12:01,071 --> 01:12:02,990
Hi, Tins. How are you?
1430
01:12:02,990 --> 01:12:04,074
Hi.
1431
01:12:04,074 --> 01:12:05,909
How are you?
1432
01:12:05,909 --> 01:12:06,869
Um,
1433
01:12:06,869 --> 01:12:09,872
- um, I mean, I've been--
- I missed you.
1434
01:12:09,872 --> 01:12:11,748
I've been better, but I've been well,
1435
01:12:11,748 --> 01:12:15,961
and it's so funny, I couldn't even
believe that you are living in Chicago.
1436
01:12:15,961 --> 01:12:18,130
I mean, I would--
when I was living there a year ago,
1437
01:12:18,130 --> 01:12:20,841
it would've been nice to know
and have a, a girlfriend there because...
1438
01:12:20,841 --> 01:12:23,177
- Yeah.
- ...' cause I was there
with barely anybody that I knew.
1439
01:12:23,177 --> 01:12:24,344
Really?
1440
01:12:24,344 --> 01:12:26,930
It would've been so fun
to have you there.
1441
01:12:27,306 --> 01:12:28,348
That's so crazy.
1442
01:12:28,348 --> 01:12:30,809
No, I would've loved
to have seen you back then, too.
1443
01:12:30,809 --> 01:12:32,561
- Where are you now?
- I know.
1444
01:12:32,561 --> 01:12:35,397
Well, I mean, right now,
um, since I left Chicago
1445
01:12:35,397 --> 01:12:39,359
because this, you know,
whatever, it's, it's a long story--
1446
01:12:39,359 --> 01:12:41,778
I'm so sorry to hear that, hon.
TINSLEY: I-I know, it's--
1447
01:12:41,778 --> 01:12:44,615
Hon, are you still hosting stuff?
1448
01:12:44,615 --> 01:12:46,533
I still do, um, a lot of--
1449
01:12:46,533 --> 01:12:48,702
Yes. I still do a lot
of different things. Hosting and stuff.
1450
01:12:48,702 --> 01:12:51,205
And a lot of the things,
actually that I, I work with a lot of,
1451
01:12:51,205 --> 01:12:54,458
are animal shelters and, and rescues
and things like that.
1452
01:12:54,458 --> 01:12:57,794
And actually,
I'm coming to Chicago this week
1453
01:12:57,794 --> 01:13:00,255
and I'm going, um, because I'm coming--
1454
01:13:00,255 --> 01:13:01,965
'Cause I still--
I work for PAWS Chicago.
1455
01:13:01,965 --> 01:13:03,592
I'm on their board of directors.
1456
01:13:03,592 --> 01:13:05,886
- Congratulations. That's amazing.
- And they have this thing, um--
1457
01:13:05,886 --> 01:13:08,096
Let me know how I can
help you with that, okay?
1458
01:13:08,096 --> 01:13:10,265
Well, um, you can help me
1459
01:13:10,265 --> 01:13:13,977
because I would love for you
to come with me to the event on Friday.
1460
01:13:13,977 --> 01:13:15,103
It's this Friday.
1461
01:13:15,103 --> 01:13:16,939
- Okay.
- It's at the Drake Hotel.
1462
01:13:16,939 --> 01:13:19,441
- Lovely.
- It's black tie, seated dinner,
1463
01:13:19,441 --> 01:13:20,859
um, dancing.
1464
01:13:20,859 --> 01:13:23,612
And, um, you can bring somebody, too.
1465
01:13:23,612 --> 01:13:25,030
I don't know if you're
dating anybody now,
1466
01:13:25,030 --> 01:13:26,657
- but you can totally bring somebody.
- I'm not. I just broke--
1467
01:13:26,657 --> 01:13:28,158
- You're not?
- I just broke up with someone.
1468
01:13:28,158 --> 01:13:30,410
Well, I'm not either, so great. [laughs]
1469
01:13:30,410 --> 01:13:31,453
Lovely.
1470
01:13:31,453 --> 01:13:32,788
We can just have fun.
1471
01:13:32,788 --> 01:13:35,332
Um, I am bringing my dogs,
Strawberry and Shortcake,
1472
01:13:35,332 --> 01:13:37,668
because this event
you can bring your dogs
1473
01:13:37,668 --> 01:13:40,921
and I'm dressing them up.
They're basically gonna match me.
1474
01:13:40,921 --> 01:13:43,423
Yeah. Well, I'm so excited
I get to see you.
1475
01:13:43,423 --> 01:13:46,134
- I know. I'm really excited to see you.
- This is gonna be so fun.
1476
01:13:46,134 --> 01:13:49,096
It's gonna be our New York Times piece
all over again, one--
1477
01:13:49,096 --> 01:13:50,722
[Tinsley chuckles]
Right?
1478
01:13:50,722 --> 01:13:54,059
Every time you and I unite, it's, it's
always written about, I swear.
1479
01:13:54,059 --> 01:13:55,894
Yes. No, it-- That was so--
1480
01:13:55,894 --> 01:13:57,271
[Morgan laughing]
1481
01:13:57,271 --> 01:13:59,064
That piece was so adorable.
1482
01:13:59,064 --> 01:14:00,148
Okay. Loves that.
1483
01:14:00,148 --> 01:14:01,733
- Looking forward to seeing you, okay?
- Bye, babe.
1484
01:14:01,733 --> 01:14:03,569
- Mwah. Love you.
- Okay, me too. Okay. Bye.
1485
01:14:03,569 --> 01:14:04,611
- Bye.
- Bye.
1486
01:14:06,947 --> 01:14:10,409
Here you go. Thank you.
1487
01:14:10,409 --> 01:14:11,827
ZACKARY:
What do you think?
1488
01:14:11,827 --> 01:14:14,872
I felt, I felt myself falling back
into who I was before
1489
01:14:14,872 --> 01:14:18,500
in the sense of, like, I'm always,
like, a support-supporting character
1490
01:14:18,500 --> 01:14:20,836
when I'm no longer a supporting character.
1491
01:14:20,836 --> 01:14:24,548
And I have to remind myself
that I'm also, like, a lead.
1492
01:14:24,548 --> 01:14:25,757
[giggles]
1493
01:14:25,757 --> 01:14:28,010
I'm just thinking of, like,
where I need to go
1494
01:14:28,010 --> 01:14:30,012
to, like, get, like, a nice gown.
1495
01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:35,058
'Cause, like, you know,
I haven't made my Chicago debut.
1496
01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:37,603
♪ uptempo music playing ♪
1497
01:14:47,779 --> 01:14:49,072
Hi.
1498
01:14:49,072 --> 01:14:53,160
MZ NEON:
Girl, ugh, finally. Wow.
1499
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:54,620
Good to see you. Thank you.
1500
01:14:54,620 --> 01:14:57,206
- Bitch!
- Do I look okay?
1501
01:14:57,206 --> 01:14:59,917
Girl, you're a vision.
[Morgan gasps]
1502
01:14:59,917 --> 01:15:01,251
Thank you.
1503
01:15:01,251 --> 01:15:02,669
What's going on?
1504
01:15:02,669 --> 01:15:05,464
Ugh. Not much.
I'm excited to see these looks, girl.
1505
01:15:08,133 --> 01:15:12,513
MZ NEON: Do you see yourself
being trophy wife?
1506
01:15:12,513 --> 01:15:15,557
[Morgan chuckles]
Or do you see yourself being, like,
1507
01:15:15,557 --> 01:15:16,892
the boss bitch?
1508
01:15:16,892 --> 01:15:18,644
What's the dream? Like--
1509
01:15:18,644 --> 01:15:22,397
I would love to inspire others
to live their best truths.
1510
01:15:22,397 --> 01:15:25,359
- Right, which you're already doing.
- And that could be,
1511
01:15:25,359 --> 01:15:27,152
and that could be, like, a beauty line.
1512
01:15:27,152 --> 01:15:29,321
- Hm.
- That could be skincare line.
1513
01:15:29,321 --> 01:15:31,657
- Hm.
- That could be hair extension line.
1514
01:15:31,657 --> 01:15:33,075
- Hm!
- That could be a dress line.
1515
01:15:33,075 --> 01:15:34,993
- Right.
- That could be so many different--
1516
01:15:34,993 --> 01:15:36,578
It could manifest in so many ways.
1517
01:15:37,871 --> 01:15:41,083
D-Do you see yourself
ever getting married?
1518
01:15:41,083 --> 01:15:42,334
MORGAN: Yeah.
1519
01:15:42,334 --> 01:15:44,378
- I could see that for you.
- Really?
1520
01:15:44,378 --> 01:15:45,546
Yeah.
1521
01:15:45,546 --> 01:15:50,008
Have you ever thought about
what your wedding announcement would say,
1522
01:15:50,008 --> 01:15:51,301
- like, in the newspaper?
- Oh, yeah.
1523
01:15:51,301 --> 01:15:53,679
I have written it, like, so many times.
1524
01:15:53,679 --> 01:15:54,763
- Really?
- Yeah.
1525
01:15:54,763 --> 01:15:56,139
Okay. What is it?
1526
01:15:56,139 --> 01:16:00,018
It's like, "So-and-so,
son of such-and-such
1527
01:16:00,018 --> 01:16:03,814
"was married yesterday
to Morgan Olivia Rose,
1528
01:16:03,814 --> 01:16:06,149
the daughter of no one."
1529
01:16:06,149 --> 01:16:07,693
Word!
[Morgan laughs]
1530
01:16:07,693 --> 01:16:12,447
And then it's like, "The bridegroom,
20 or 30-something,
1531
01:16:12,447 --> 01:16:14,783
is a graduate of Harvard College."
1532
01:16:18,620 --> 01:16:21,540
"Mrs.--" You know, 'cause
it's a wedding announcement
1533
01:16:21,540 --> 01:16:23,542
with my new last name.
1534
01:16:23,542 --> 01:16:25,961
And it has my age.
No one has to know my age.
1535
01:16:27,129 --> 01:16:31,550
"...is a former transsexual prostitute
and film star."
1536
01:16:31,550 --> 01:16:33,719
[laughs]
1537
01:16:36,305 --> 01:16:38,807
MZ NEON:
It's so important to show your story
1538
01:16:38,807 --> 01:16:42,519
and to show that with all of our stories,
1539
01:16:42,519 --> 01:16:45,898
like, we're not all one thing.
1540
01:16:45,898 --> 01:16:49,985
We exist outside whatever boxes
people want to put us in.
1541
01:16:54,990 --> 01:16:56,992
ZACKARY:
What's next for you, Tinsley?
1542
01:16:58,076 --> 01:16:59,953
You know when people ask you what you do
or things or what do you want to do?
1543
01:16:59,953 --> 01:17:01,246
It's like, I don't really know
what to say.
1544
01:17:01,246 --> 01:17:03,332
Sometimes you just, like,
give, like, a generic answer. Like--
1545
01:17:03,332 --> 01:17:05,584
Actually, it's the same answer I give now.
1546
01:17:05,584 --> 01:17:07,753
I say, "I just want to be a housewife."
1547
01:17:07,753 --> 01:17:09,087
A real housewife.
1548
01:17:09,087 --> 01:17:12,257
Not a, "Real housewife,"
but a real housewife. [laughs]
1549
01:17:12,257 --> 01:17:15,636
Because, I mean, in a w--
I mean, I don't only want to talk about
1550
01:17:15,636 --> 01:17:17,429
all of my business stuff
I want to do and things,
1551
01:17:17,429 --> 01:17:20,140
but I also do want to have a child
and be a housewife.
1552
01:17:20,140 --> 01:17:24,144
A real one. Anyway. Sorry. Tangents.
1553
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:26,980
♪ uptempo music playing ♪
1554
01:17:29,316 --> 01:17:32,236
[indistinct chatter]
1555
01:17:38,408 --> 01:17:40,953
I need to cut something. Sorry.
1556
01:17:40,953 --> 01:17:43,288
♪
1557
01:17:45,707 --> 01:17:48,418
What? Oh, thank you.
[indistinct chatter]
1558
01:17:48,418 --> 01:17:50,295
You're going to take my phone
and my, uh--
1559
01:17:50,295 --> 01:17:51,797
ASSISTANT: Purse.
1560
01:17:53,340 --> 01:17:54,800
Hi, girls. Okay.
1561
01:17:55,217 --> 01:17:58,178
They're very well-behaved,
but they're also--
1562
01:17:58,178 --> 01:18:00,305
I told them it was going to be
just for a little bit,
1563
01:18:00,305 --> 01:18:02,891
but we're going to have to do all this
and then it's gonna be done.
1564
01:18:02,891 --> 01:18:07,688
♪
1565
01:18:11,275 --> 01:18:13,610
[indistinct chatter]
1566
01:18:15,571 --> 01:18:18,365
I rescued them from China
and I swear to God,
1567
01:18:18,365 --> 01:18:21,201
they are so-- they're just so grateful.
1568
01:18:21,201 --> 01:18:26,832
♪
1569
01:18:26,832 --> 01:18:29,710
I thought I was going to live here.
I was like, living in Hancock.
1570
01:18:29,710 --> 01:18:31,879
I was engaged, too. It's a long story.
1571
01:18:31,879 --> 01:18:35,257
♪
1572
01:18:41,054 --> 01:18:43,098
I promise. Okay.
[indistinct chatter]
1573
01:18:43,098 --> 01:18:46,685
♪
1574
01:18:51,315 --> 01:18:52,774
[Tinsley chuckles]
1575
01:18:55,194 --> 01:18:56,486
Sorry. Hi.
1576
01:18:56,486 --> 01:19:00,365
So, Morgan just told me she's
backing out. She doesn't want to come.
1577
01:19:00,365 --> 01:19:01,992
- Oh, my God. She can't.
- Yeah.
1578
01:19:01,992 --> 01:19:06,747
- Why?
- She's like, I don't know. She's--
1579
01:19:06,747 --> 01:19:09,458
Okay. Well, let me talk to her, maybe.
1580
01:19:16,131 --> 01:19:19,927
- Yeah, like--
- She didn't feel like, like,
secure enough with me or something?
1581
01:19:19,927 --> 01:19:21,261
- I mean, I don't know.
- I don't know.
1582
01:19:21,261 --> 01:19:23,722
Okay, let me-- Can I talk--
Can I talk to her for a second?
1583
01:19:23,722 --> 01:19:24,806
Yeah. Well--
1584
01:19:26,517 --> 01:19:29,102
♪ pensive music playing ♪
1585
01:19:31,605 --> 01:19:33,524
[ringback tone]
1586
01:19:35,984 --> 01:19:37,694
AUTOMATED VOICEMAIL MESSAGE:
...is not available.
1587
01:19:37,694 --> 01:19:39,988
At the tone, please record your message.
1588
01:19:40,572 --> 01:19:41,782
[phone beeps]
1589
01:19:41,782 --> 01:19:44,618
MORGAN [on phone]: I honestly
don't feel like attending this event.
1590
01:19:44,618 --> 01:19:48,205
What do I have in common
with these people anymore?
1591
01:19:48,205 --> 01:19:51,124
Absolutely fucking nothing.
1592
01:19:53,126 --> 01:19:55,796
Do I have any of the same values?
1593
01:19:55,796 --> 01:19:57,714
We used to look up to
the same accomplishments,
1594
01:19:57,714 --> 01:20:01,051
like, "Oh, my God,
she's a brand ambassador for X, Y, Z."
1595
01:20:01,885 --> 01:20:03,720
Maybe we live in a time period
where I can be
1596
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,765
a brand ambassador for something,
but am I?
1597
01:20:07,182 --> 01:20:10,978
No, I'm not. It's not anywhere in my life
where I want to be.
1598
01:20:13,480 --> 01:20:17,860
What am I these days?
I'm a transsexual call girl.
1599
01:20:20,237 --> 01:20:21,738
PHOTOGRAPHER:
Yeah, I like that. Good.
1600
01:20:22,739 --> 01:20:23,740
Very nice.
1601
01:20:24,408 --> 01:20:27,452
[indistinct shouting]
1602
01:20:27,452 --> 01:20:29,204
KELLY:
It's all very mythological.
1603
01:20:30,539 --> 01:20:35,127
The concept of celebrities, the family,
beautiful people, the freaks.
1604
01:20:35,127 --> 01:20:38,297
The one who wins, one who lose.
One who came from nowhere.
1605
01:20:40,007 --> 01:20:41,008
The one who died,
1606
01:20:41,008 --> 01:20:43,135
the one who was so rich,
they had everything and lost it all.
1607
01:20:43,135 --> 01:20:45,762
[indistinct chatter]
1608
01:20:47,556 --> 01:20:48,724
These are all stories
1609
01:20:48,724 --> 01:20:51,185
and these are the people
who want to be the stars of the stories.
1610
01:20:51,185 --> 01:20:53,061
And in order to be
the stars of the story,
1611
01:20:53,061 --> 01:20:54,146
you need a storybook.
1612
01:20:54,146 --> 01:20:56,064
And then you need somebody
to read the book
1613
01:20:56,064 --> 01:20:57,900
and then somebody to build
the amusement park about it.
1614
01:20:57,900 --> 01:20:59,484
And that's how it fucking goes.
1615
01:21:00,027 --> 01:21:02,196
So, I guess you need to decide,
1616
01:21:02,196 --> 01:21:05,282
do you want to be the consumer,
the consumed or the creator?
1617
01:21:05,282 --> 01:21:07,784
'Cause those, those are the three lanes.
1618
01:21:10,746 --> 01:21:12,748
MORGAN:
We think we're in control.
1619
01:21:12,748 --> 01:21:15,000
But these narratives are pre-written.
1620
01:21:16,418 --> 01:21:19,296
These stories create our reality.
1621
01:21:20,422 --> 01:21:23,383
I know the way out. I know the truth.
1622
01:21:25,928 --> 01:21:28,972
Our differences make us divine.
1623
01:21:29,932 --> 01:21:35,020
And maybe that's what
makes difference so terrifying.
1624
01:21:36,897 --> 01:21:39,983
I will write my story
and make it trip.
1625
01:21:40,734 --> 01:21:43,278
There, I am divine.
1626
01:21:44,947 --> 01:21:49,660
I will create my own American divinity.
1627
01:21:56,124 --> 01:21:59,878
♪ Rich Girl by Nina Simone playing ♪
1628
01:22:02,005 --> 01:22:05,384
♪
1629
01:22:07,427 --> 01:22:09,054
♪ There's a rich girl ♪
1630
01:22:09,054 --> 01:22:13,308
♪ You know you've gone too far
and you know it don't matter anyway ♪
1631
01:22:13,976 --> 01:22:19,648
♪ You can rely on your old man's money,
you can rely on your old man's money ♪
1632
01:22:19,648 --> 01:22:22,776
♪ Don't you bitch, girl,
and you've gone too far ♪
1633
01:22:22,776 --> 01:22:25,571
♪ And you know it don't matter anyway ♪
1634
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:30,868
♪ Money, money
won't get you too far, get you too far ♪
1635
01:22:31,451 --> 01:22:37,124
♪ Don't you know, don't you know ♪
1636
01:22:38,041 --> 01:22:44,006
♪ That it's wrong
to take what is given you ♪
1637
01:22:44,131 --> 01:22:49,553
♪ So far gone on your own ♪
1638
01:22:50,262 --> 01:22:53,807
♪ And you can get along,
but you gotta be strong ♪
1639
01:22:53,807 --> 01:22:56,894
♪ You can never be strong ♪
1640
01:22:56,894 --> 01:22:58,020
♪ There's a rich girl ♪
1641
01:22:58,020 --> 01:23:02,858
♪ You know you've gone too far
and you know it don't matter anyway ♪
1642
01:23:02,858 --> 01:23:05,944
♪ Hey, you can rely
on your old man's money ♪
1643
01:23:05,944 --> 01:23:08,989
♪ You can rely on your old man's money ♪
1644
01:23:08,989 --> 01:23:12,034
♪ It's a bitch, girl,
you know you've gone too far ♪
1645
01:23:12,034 --> 01:23:14,953
♪ And you know it don't matter anyway ♪
1646
01:23:15,412 --> 01:23:20,042
♪ Money, money
won't get you too far, get you too far ♪
1647
01:23:20,876 --> 01:23:25,672
♪ High and dry, have a little rain ♪
1648
01:23:26,507 --> 01:23:29,635
♪ It's so easy ♪
1649
01:23:29,968 --> 01:23:32,888
♪ To hurt others
when you can't feel pain ♪
1650
01:23:32,888 --> 01:23:38,477
♪ So far gone on your own ♪