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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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[Young Rachel Mason] Mom.

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Mom, turn around!

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Mom, turn around!
You're on Totally Hidden Video!

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Say hi. Scream!

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We've got a house full of company.
Can we call you back? Okay.

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00:00:23,314 --> 00:00:25,066
[Young Rachel]
Hello. What's your name, sir?

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"You're on Candid Camera."

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Look at that little camera hidden
in that corner behind the cabinet.

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-Aren't you too close right now?
-Yes, that's a camera.

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-I'm not focused, Rachel.
-[softly] Scream.

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[screams softly]

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[Young Rachel]
Five cans of water?! Holy-moly!

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Five cans of water.

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Rachel, this is gonna be
such a boring tape,

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watching somebody put five cans of water
in a pitcher.

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[Rachel] Okay, Mom, Dad,
can you introduce yourselves?

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-[Barry Mason] You start.
-[Karen Mason] Okay.

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So, I'm Karen Mason.

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I'm Barry Mason.

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And we own Circus of Books, since 1982,

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so 33 years ago.

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Which is a long time to do anything.

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[Rachel]
Can you say what the Circus of Books is?

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All right. So, Josh,
can you describe our family for me?

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Like, what are Mom and Dad like?

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[Josh Mason] Um... [clears throat]

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I think our family--

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There's a level of conventionality
in our family. I think, um...

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we're a normal, tight-knit family.

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I just mean to take us.

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Hey, Micah, stop it. Micah! Come on.

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[Josh] We were striving
for the perfect family look.

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Micah, you moved.

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[Josh]
Mom, she's definitely the alpha woman

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but still quite soft around the edges.

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♪ Oh, Hanukkah ♪

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♪ Come light the menorah ♪

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Do it again.

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[Micah Mason]
She is strong-willed,

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and she goes for what she wants
with force.

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[Rachel]
How would you describe Dad?

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[Karen] Don't bang into the bars.

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[Micah] Dad is one of the few people
whose default state is happiness.

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He's just kind of a happy guy.

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[Karen] What does the red light
in this thing mean?

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-Daddy, can I go in here?
-[Barry] Yeah.

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Daddy!

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[Josh]
The description is always,

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"Look for the bald guy
with a smile on his face,"

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whenever he was lost in a shopping mall.

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It was definitely a good cop/bad cop duo.

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[Karen]
You know, here I was, this, uh...

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I would never call myself a soccer mom,

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but I was certainly a working mother
with three children.

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We didn't want them
to know what we did at all,

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because we thought maybe
people wouldn't, like, play with them.

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I think that's a very tough piñata.

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[cheering]

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[Karen] We never talked about it.

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[Micah] It was just known
that's how the family worked.

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You don't talk about family business
in the family.

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If anyone asked us what our parents did,

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the official answer was,
"Run a bookstore."

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"We own a bookstore."

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That's what you tell people.

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[Micah] There were times
we had to get to the store,

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'cause Mom was driving us home
and needed to stop by.

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We were under strict instructions
to stare down at the ground

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the entire time we were passing
through certain areas of the store.

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"Don't look around. Look at the floor."

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But obviously...

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you know, wandering eyes.

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[Micah] There was one time
I found a VHS tape

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in the back of Mom's car,

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and I grabbed it, and hid it,
and waited for months.

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Finally, everybody was out of the house,

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and I run to my hiding place,
and I pull out this tape...

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and it turns out it was a Beta,
and I couldn't watch it. [laughs]

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[Karen]
So, Circus of Books is a bookstore

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and a hardcore gay, adult business.

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[upbeat music playing]

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[Alaska]
I would always see Circus of Books,

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and I thought
it was just... a bookstore...

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with a circus theme.

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And I went in and realized

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that it was so much more
than just a regular bookstore.

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It had this whole section
that was just, like, porn,

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P-O-R-N, you know.

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It was great.

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A purveyor of gourmet sexual material
for every pervert in America,

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that was Circus bookstore's claim to fame.

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It made all these men comfortable
exploring their own sexuality.

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Circus of Books was a safe place
to find other gays.

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There was cruising going on
in the book stacks.

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It was the center of the gay universe
in that neighborhood.

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[male host] A regular feature here
on 2 on the Town is to take a look

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at some of the famous and infamous streets
of Southern California.

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And tonight,
Lou Lauren takes us along with him

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to Santa Monica Boulevard.

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[Lou Lauren]
This is the face of Santa Monica Boulevard

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that is familiar to most outsiders.

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But the street also has a private side,

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perceived by outsiders
only if it dawns on them

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that almost all of the people
they see here are men.

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[Alexei Romanoff]
In the first year I moved to Los Angeles,

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I found a place that was accepting.

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West Hollywood was mainly
very young, gay people,

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and it was called Boystown.

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[Phil Tarley] Back then, if you were out,
you were an outlaw,

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and you did outlandish things, you know?

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[Alaska] That whole, like,
toe-tapping, and cruising,

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and like, bandannas and flagging...

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[interviewer] People don't say,
"Well, maybe I'd better get into a corner.

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My boss might see me here"?

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No, no, I think gay liberation is here,
and there's no problem at all.

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My name is Alexei Romanoff,

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and I happen to be one of the last people
who are still alive

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from the demonstration at the Black Cat.

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On New Year's Eve, 1966,

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there were police raids
on two of the bars.

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Two or three seconds after midnight,

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after the song "Auld Lang Syne"
was playing at the Black Cat,

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the police started
to arrest people who were kissing.

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They were afraid,

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because if they got outed,
they could lose their job,

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lose their homes.

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From that incident, came demonstrations
against police brutality

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outside of the oldest gay bars
in Los Angeles,

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the Black Cat and the New Faces.

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It was the largest demonstration
in the country at the time,

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and it was two and a half years
before Stonewall.

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The New Faces became the Circus of Books.

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That bookstore was really important,

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because there was literature in them
that had to do with our lives.

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I mean,
we were the unspoken, hidden people

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that you never talked about
because they were disgusting.

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[Billy Miller]
I can't even explain how different it was.

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To be a homo was unspeakable, basically.

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[Don Norman] Porn has always had a place
in the gay community,

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because, you know,
we didn't see anything like that.

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To see men, you know,
naked and unafraid...

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that gave us a lot of pride.

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Circus of Books was my first glimpse

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into the fact
that I wasn't alone as a gay person.

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[Paulo Morillo]
Being gay back then was not easy,

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and this bookstore, you know,

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it kept me safe.
It kept me out of harm's way.

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[doorbell chimes]

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[Karen] How are the sales today?

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They're on the slow side.

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Then up.

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Like every day, huh?

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Oh, looks like some
of the VHS might have sold, huh?

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00:09:08,965 --> 00:09:10,174
-Yeah.
-[Karen] Did it?

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-Yep.
-Somewhat, yeah.

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[Karen]
So, I mean, I just see this this morning.

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Somebody brought in straight VHS tapes,
and these are in really good condition.

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I don't know who's gonna buy
the straight VHS tapes,

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but we didn't pay anything.

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We traded for books
that we sell for a dollar.

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These are pills.
These are called cock rings.

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Why is this going over there?

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I don't know why this is going over there.

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All right.

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We got a report of a rat.

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So one of the employees this morning
happened to see it

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way back here where there is no food,
but we just want to catch it

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before he decides to go up front
and grab some of our snacks.

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[Karen] Well, the front of the store
has our most merchandise.

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00:10:01,726 --> 00:10:06,397
So this guy here, Handjobs magazine,
just stopped publishing.

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00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,025
Now, he does organic chicken farming.

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00:10:09,108 --> 00:10:12,361
So when I order from him,
we catch up on his chickens.

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Okay, so this is our adult section.

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Famous.

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So, this is
one of our best sections of all.

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This is called "Previously Viewed,"

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and these are...

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hardcore gay DVDs

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that customers bought from us
over the years.

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I don't know
that this is one of the really good ones.

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For a while, we were just doing
buy-one-get-one-free with this sale.

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It's called Nude and Rude,
directed by Carl Stanyon.

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But even at $3.95,

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they're not flying off the shelves.

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Some days, I go to work,

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and I feel like I'm just moving
the deckchairs on the Titanic.

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I take a seven-dollar movie
and reduce it to three dollars,

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00:11:03,204 --> 00:11:06,832
and I move it from this side of the wall
to that side of the wall.

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We're just an aging, ailing business.

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[Micah]
She set off to be a journalist,

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00:11:15,049 --> 00:11:18,219
so she did not set off
to go chart a different course.

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00:11:19,428 --> 00:11:22,640
But I guess circumstances changed her
from that path.

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00:11:24,141 --> 00:11:26,352
[Rachel]
But if you look at Mom's early reporting,

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00:11:26,811 --> 00:11:30,272
she interviewed Larry Flynt.
She wrote about smut raids in bookstores.

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00:11:30,356 --> 00:11:31,315
-Really?
-[Rachel] Yes.

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00:11:31,399 --> 00:11:32,900
-That was her early reporting?
-Yes.

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00:11:32,983 --> 00:11:34,360
[Micah] I had no idea.

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00:11:34,443 --> 00:11:36,904
Me neither until I found her articles.

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00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:42,618
[Karen] Oh, this was our little, um...

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00:11:43,202 --> 00:11:45,788
staff in Dayton.

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00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:49,625
[Rachel]
Whoa! You dressed kind of sexy actually.

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00:11:49,709 --> 00:11:52,586
[Karen] Yeah, I did.
I had a nice figure. Look at that.

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00:11:54,672 --> 00:11:56,173
[Rachel] Whoa!

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00:11:57,007 --> 00:11:58,092
What?

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00:11:59,093 --> 00:12:00,386
-[Karen] Yeah.
-[Rachel] What?

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00:12:01,637 --> 00:12:04,432
[Karen] See, but, Rachel, what are you
gonna do with stuff like this?

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00:12:04,515 --> 00:12:08,102
I mean, this is just stuff
that I happened to be involved in.

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00:12:08,185 --> 00:12:11,272
[Rachel] Okay, well, you're not somebody
that makes documentaries.

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00:12:11,355 --> 00:12:12,565
[Karen] Well, neither are you.

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00:12:14,024 --> 00:12:16,444
Well, if you want to take it
and make a collage or--

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00:12:16,527 --> 00:12:18,571
[Rachel] Mom, I don't know
what I'm gonna do with it.

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00:12:18,654 --> 00:12:22,616
Just stop criticizing
every little possible turn of events.

215
00:12:23,284 --> 00:12:25,161
I want to find that Flynt article.

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00:12:27,288 --> 00:12:28,956
Oh, look at this.

217
00:12:29,039 --> 00:12:31,709
"Six arrested in smut raids."

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00:12:31,792 --> 00:12:32,668
[Karen] Oh...

219
00:12:33,169 --> 00:12:34,795
So, this could be...

220
00:12:35,629 --> 00:12:38,591
"The judicial system moved
with unusual speed Friday

221
00:12:38,674 --> 00:12:42,678
in the cases of six men charged
with selling obscene material

222
00:12:42,762 --> 00:12:45,765
in downtown Cincinnati
adult book stores."

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00:12:47,349 --> 00:12:49,560
Karen and I met in high school.

224
00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:53,731
She was outgoing, inquisitive,

225
00:12:53,814 --> 00:12:55,649
interested in everything.

226
00:12:56,275 --> 00:12:59,528
Karen always wanted to be a reporter.

227
00:13:00,821 --> 00:13:05,117
[Karen] My first real newspaper job was
at the Wall Street Journal in Chicago.

228
00:13:05,201 --> 00:13:08,120
And then I got hired
at the Cincinnati Enquirer.

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00:13:08,537 --> 00:13:10,289
[show narrator]
The editor has arrived.

230
00:13:10,372 --> 00:13:12,958
It's a start of a typical work day
at the newspaper.

231
00:13:13,042 --> 00:13:15,753
[Karen]
I specialized in criminal justice.

232
00:13:17,546 --> 00:13:19,799
My special project was to interview

233
00:13:19,882 --> 00:13:22,802
a Supreme Court Justice
named Potter Stewart,

234
00:13:22,885 --> 00:13:27,223
who's particularly well-known
for his obscenity decision, which said,

235
00:13:27,306 --> 00:13:31,602
"I can't really describe obscenity,
but I know it when I see it."

236
00:13:33,270 --> 00:13:38,234
I interviewed Larry Flynt
for a series on these Hustler bars.

237
00:13:38,317 --> 00:13:40,903
[Larry Flynt]
I'm a very unlikely person to be in this,

238
00:13:40,986 --> 00:13:45,449
because if I hadn't have ran away
from home when I was 12 years old,

239
00:13:45,533 --> 00:13:47,576
I'd still be looking a mule up the ass.

240
00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:51,163
[Karen] It was clear
that he had a pretty big concept,

241
00:13:51,789 --> 00:13:54,625
and it looked like
he was gonna be pretty successful.

242
00:13:56,836 --> 00:13:58,921
[Rachel]
What was happening in that picture

243
00:13:59,004 --> 00:14:01,215
where you are looking around a car?

244
00:14:01,924 --> 00:14:04,134
[Karen]
There was somebody in a house,

245
00:14:04,218 --> 00:14:06,470
and they were trying to get him out,

246
00:14:06,554 --> 00:14:08,389
and I think shots were fired.

247
00:14:09,723 --> 00:14:12,852
[Ellen Winer]
She always wanted more exciting stories.

248
00:14:13,853 --> 00:14:16,230
She likes things to be hard.

249
00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:21,443
[Karen] I never expected
to be burned out of journalism,

250
00:14:22,403 --> 00:14:26,907
but a good newspaper story
is very often somebody's tragedy.

251
00:14:28,450 --> 00:14:30,911
I covered plane crashes.
I covered murders.

252
00:14:30,995 --> 00:14:32,788
I covered car accidents.

253
00:14:33,455 --> 00:14:36,333
At some point, you either get very jaded,

254
00:14:36,417 --> 00:14:38,002
or you say, "That's enough."

255
00:14:40,921 --> 00:14:43,215
I came out to LA to visit my parents,

256
00:14:43,299 --> 00:14:47,261
thinking I was gonna go to Alaska
and be a freelance writer.

257
00:14:47,636 --> 00:14:49,430
I never went to Alaska,

258
00:14:49,513 --> 00:14:52,391
and I never did anything
with freelance journalism.

259
00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:54,476
[Rachel]
And is that when you met?

260
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,272
We met at a Jewish singles party
in Woodland Hills.

261
00:15:00,190 --> 00:15:03,235
[Barry] It was pretty dark.
I don't know why it started so late.

262
00:15:03,819 --> 00:15:05,154
[Karen]
As I got to the party,

263
00:15:05,237 --> 00:15:08,282
there were some women leaving,
and they said, "This is terrible party.

264
00:15:08,365 --> 00:15:10,034
Why don't you come with us?"

265
00:15:10,117 --> 00:15:13,829
I said, "Well, I drove all this way.
I think I'll stay for a bit."

266
00:15:15,456 --> 00:15:19,543
[Barry] I just happened to notice
the light from the end of a cigarette.

267
00:15:20,044 --> 00:15:23,505
I said, "That looks like
it might be a girl up there."

268
00:15:24,757 --> 00:15:27,426
[Karen] He came over to me,
and we just started talking.

269
00:15:27,968 --> 00:15:30,638
It was a very interesting conversation.

270
00:15:31,347 --> 00:15:33,015
[Barry]
The whole time, I couldn't see her.

271
00:15:33,098 --> 00:15:35,768
I mean, I couldn't see her face.
It was so dark.

272
00:15:37,353 --> 00:15:39,521
[Karen]
He suggested we go for coffee.

273
00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:42,191
[Barry] When she walked in,
that's first time I saw her.

274
00:15:42,274 --> 00:15:43,567
She looked fine to me.

275
00:15:45,444 --> 00:15:47,905
And then, from then on,
we just went out all the time.

276
00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:52,117
[Karen] He had a motorcycle.

277
00:15:53,452 --> 00:15:55,496
[Barry]
Mother wasn't crazy about that.

278
00:15:56,330 --> 00:15:58,499
And we got married in seven months.

279
00:15:59,750 --> 00:16:00,876
I had a blue dress.

280
00:16:01,377 --> 00:16:04,171
He had a jacket
that we paid five dollars for.

281
00:16:04,672 --> 00:16:05,839
-[Barry] It was on sale.
-Yeah.

282
00:16:05,923 --> 00:16:08,258
A lot of stripes, colored stripes.

283
00:16:09,051 --> 00:16:12,262
[Winer] I remember she said
he's this kind of genius,

284
00:16:12,346 --> 00:16:14,264
inventing gizmos.

285
00:16:16,266 --> 00:16:19,520
[Barry] I started in UCLA's
Motion Picture Department.

286
00:16:20,145 --> 00:16:24,566
Jim Morrison and his friend Ray Manzarek,

287
00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:26,443
those two hung around together.

288
00:16:26,527 --> 00:16:28,654
And since we were all
in the same department,

289
00:16:28,737 --> 00:16:30,447
we shot movies together.

290
00:16:30,531 --> 00:16:31,573
But what happened?

291
00:16:31,657 --> 00:16:35,619
How come my parents, or the state,
or the university didn't look ahead?

292
00:16:35,703 --> 00:16:39,164
I got my first job in the movies
with Linwood Dunn.

293
00:16:39,665 --> 00:16:41,333
When I first got to work with him,

294
00:16:41,417 --> 00:16:46,088
we were just finishing up special effects
for 2001: A Space Odyssey.

295
00:16:46,171 --> 00:16:48,382
[man on set] Light it up.
Okay, lights up, gentlemen.

296
00:16:55,723 --> 00:16:59,977
And then Star Trek came along,
and we did that for three years.

297
00:17:05,941 --> 00:17:08,068
They used these optical printers.

298
00:17:08,152 --> 00:17:10,863
That was a very common thing
in special effects.

299
00:17:11,321 --> 00:17:13,991
And since I knew a lot
about color and light,

300
00:17:14,074 --> 00:17:17,161
I invented an accessory
for dialysis machines.

301
00:17:17,244 --> 00:17:20,497
We have to back up
and say his father was a kidney patient.

302
00:17:21,123 --> 00:17:24,126
Okay. So, I invented things for him
and then...

303
00:17:25,044 --> 00:17:27,921
Well, you have to say why.
In those days,

304
00:17:28,005 --> 00:17:32,051
Barry trained running his father's blood
through the machine.

305
00:17:32,134 --> 00:17:35,054
The first night he was home, a tube broke,
and he could have died.

306
00:17:35,137 --> 00:17:36,638
[Barry]
Yeah, he could have died.

307
00:17:36,722 --> 00:17:38,932
I said, "There's no reason
I can't make a little detector

308
00:17:39,016 --> 00:17:43,604
that would detect when the tubing
turned red instead of white."

309
00:17:44,146 --> 00:17:47,608
And so I... figured out a way to do that.

310
00:17:50,235 --> 00:17:54,948
[Rachel] So you actually just applied
your special effects technology skills

311
00:17:55,032 --> 00:17:56,909
to medical devices,

312
00:17:57,618 --> 00:17:59,495
and you had no experience with that?

313
00:17:59,578 --> 00:18:00,412
Yeah.

314
00:18:06,502 --> 00:18:09,963
[Barry] The technician who had trained me
calls me, and he says,

315
00:18:10,047 --> 00:18:11,840
"Hey, Barry, you gotta quit your job.

316
00:18:11,924 --> 00:18:13,509
Your thing works so good

317
00:18:13,592 --> 00:18:15,803
that I went out,
and I showed it to a company

318
00:18:15,886 --> 00:18:17,721
who makes actual kidney machines,

319
00:18:17,805 --> 00:18:20,891
and they're gonna order 325 of these."

320
00:18:22,518 --> 00:18:27,773
[Karen] We made a very modest living
as an inventor of dialysis equipment.

321
00:18:28,941 --> 00:18:33,862
But then malpractice insurance
went up $35,000.

322
00:18:33,946 --> 00:18:36,115
Well, at that time,
that's about what I was making.

323
00:18:37,533 --> 00:18:39,326
These doctors, they said,

324
00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:43,080
"Well, if you can't afford the insurance,
we're out."

325
00:18:45,249 --> 00:18:47,334
[Karen]
We were not in a good place at all.

326
00:18:48,919 --> 00:18:53,507
We were starting a family
and needed to make a living somehow.

327
00:18:55,676 --> 00:18:57,803
[Simon Leis]
The basic unit of society

328
00:18:58,262 --> 00:18:59,263
is the family.

329
00:19:01,140 --> 00:19:02,683
And if you destroy that,

330
00:19:03,725 --> 00:19:05,477
you destroy society.

331
00:19:06,019 --> 00:19:09,982
And I'm firmly convinced
that pornography, obscenity

332
00:19:10,357 --> 00:19:11,817
attacks the family.

333
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:15,612
[Flynt] I decided a long time ago.
If you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly.

334
00:19:15,696 --> 00:19:17,156
I'm not rolling over and playing dead

335
00:19:17,239 --> 00:19:19,366
for him
or any other prosecutor in America,

336
00:19:19,449 --> 00:19:23,287
because this country belongs to me
as much as it belongs to them.

337
00:19:24,079 --> 00:19:27,332
I spent most of the '70s and '80s

338
00:19:27,416 --> 00:19:30,669
putting out censorship fires
all over the country.

339
00:19:30,752 --> 00:19:33,380
-[Rachel] Hi. It's so good to see you.
-How you doing?

340
00:19:33,463 --> 00:19:36,633
[Rachel]
You put out an ad in the L.A. Times

341
00:19:36,717 --> 00:19:38,427
looking for small distributors.

342
00:19:38,510 --> 00:19:43,182
Well, because
the establishment distributors

343
00:19:43,891 --> 00:19:46,852
would not distribute the magazine.

344
00:19:47,269 --> 00:19:52,274
So I went direct to a lot of bookstores
and secondary distributors.

345
00:19:53,192 --> 00:19:57,779
[Barry] The very day after I sold
all our rights to these machines,

346
00:19:57,863 --> 00:19:59,489
Karen came in.
I hadn't woke up yet.

347
00:19:59,573 --> 00:20:02,784
And she shows me a full-page ad
from Larry Flynt

348
00:20:02,868 --> 00:20:05,954
that says he's looking for distributors.

349
00:20:06,038 --> 00:20:09,166
It was just something else he could do,
because we didn't--

350
00:20:09,583 --> 00:20:12,169
He didn't... have anything to do really.

351
00:20:12,252 --> 00:20:14,129
Yeah, I was...
I was sleeping late, you see,

352
00:20:14,213 --> 00:20:16,215
'cause I didn't have anything
to do that morning...

353
00:20:16,298 --> 00:20:17,841
until she woke me up with the ad.

354
00:20:18,926 --> 00:20:20,260
I spoke to a woman, and she said,

355
00:20:20,344 --> 00:20:24,932
"You just need to send us an order
for 2,500 magazines,"

356
00:20:25,015 --> 00:20:29,144
and they would put us on as a distributor
as long as we had a truck.

357
00:20:29,228 --> 00:20:31,355
And so, I said,
yeah, I had a truck.

358
00:20:31,438 --> 00:20:33,857
Of course, I didn't,
but I could rent a truck.

359
00:20:36,526 --> 00:20:39,988
[Karen] You don't have the luxury
of not earning a living.

360
00:20:40,072 --> 00:20:42,699
You have to figure out
what you're gonna do.

361
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,040
Barry took our little station wagon
out to the liquor stores in our area.

362
00:20:50,123 --> 00:20:52,918
[Barry] I would say, "If you can't get it
from your regular distributor,

363
00:20:53,001 --> 00:20:54,044
would you buy it from me?"

364
00:20:54,127 --> 00:20:57,798
And at the end of the day,
I had 2,500 orders.

365
00:20:58,715 --> 00:21:02,678
Your mom and dad
were one of our very first distributors

366
00:21:02,761 --> 00:21:04,179
in this area.

367
00:21:04,263 --> 00:21:06,473
And they grew, and they did very well.

368
00:21:07,391 --> 00:21:09,142
[Barry]
I told Karen, "This was so easy.

369
00:21:09,226 --> 00:21:11,687
Why don't I just see
if I can get more customers?"

370
00:21:11,770 --> 00:21:14,940
[Karen] We made enough money
that we could just function

371
00:21:15,023 --> 00:21:17,192
while we figured out
what we were gonna do.

372
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:21,780
[Barry] Meanwhile, Flynt took over
other magazine companies.

373
00:21:21,863 --> 00:21:24,741
So, now, we had several gay titles.

374
00:21:24,825 --> 00:21:26,326
One. We had Blueboy.

375
00:21:27,035 --> 00:21:32,416
[Flynt] Blueboy was one of the first
really successful gay publications

376
00:21:32,499 --> 00:21:34,251
that was not underground.

377
00:21:35,002 --> 00:21:37,296
They had trouble finding a distributor,

378
00:21:37,379 --> 00:21:38,880
and they came to me.

379
00:21:38,964 --> 00:21:41,008
[Barry] Then he got other ones,
Honcho and Mandate,

380
00:21:41,091 --> 00:21:43,552
which were all the top gay magazines
at the time.

381
00:21:44,136 --> 00:21:46,221
We had even thousands of titles:

382
00:21:46,305 --> 00:21:49,433
knitting magazines, woodworking, guns,
you name it.

383
00:21:49,516 --> 00:21:51,935
-New York Review of Books.
-Yeah, but fine, good magazines.

384
00:21:52,019 --> 00:21:54,062
We would try
and get the better magazines,

385
00:21:54,479 --> 00:21:56,565
-and they sold it to us.
-What do you mean "better"?

386
00:21:56,648 --> 00:21:58,734
-Like New York Review of Books.
-No.

387
00:21:58,817 --> 00:22:01,903
The New York Review of Books
never sold very well.

388
00:22:01,987 --> 00:22:03,405
What sold well was Hustler.

389
00:22:06,241 --> 00:22:09,453
I remember hearing that
Barry was distributing Hustler magazine,

390
00:22:09,536 --> 00:22:12,622
and Circus of Books, or Book Circus,
was on his route.

391
00:22:13,623 --> 00:22:17,377
The store was taking 600
of all the gay titles.

392
00:22:17,461 --> 00:22:19,588
I mean, I would load the whole truck up
just for them.

393
00:22:19,671 --> 00:22:22,382
Book Circus was not paying
their bills very well.

394
00:22:22,466 --> 00:22:26,094
And so, Barry saw an opportunity
and pounced.

395
00:22:26,636 --> 00:22:29,890
When he stopped paying,
I ran into his manager.

396
00:22:29,973 --> 00:22:32,684
He says,
"He's become a terrible cocaine addict,

397
00:22:32,768 --> 00:22:34,603
and he's not paying anybody."

398
00:22:35,479 --> 00:22:39,524
I got the idea to call the landlord
and offer him half the rent.

399
00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:42,944
So then, we actually were in business,
and there was no more problems,

400
00:22:43,028 --> 00:22:46,823
other than the old owner threatened
to kill me one day, and that was...

401
00:22:46,907 --> 00:22:49,076
But that didn't happen fortunately.

402
00:22:51,828 --> 00:22:54,748
There was this big, fluorescent sign.
It said, "Book Circus,"

403
00:22:54,831 --> 00:22:56,541
and we had to rename it.

404
00:22:56,625 --> 00:22:59,378
I said, "You know what?
We could just cut that sign right in half,

405
00:22:59,461 --> 00:23:04,132
and flop the words around,
and just pay for "of," and--

406
00:23:04,216 --> 00:23:06,301
I didn't know that you switched the sign.

407
00:23:06,385 --> 00:23:09,805
I mean, that's kind of like
our whole philosophy of retail.

408
00:23:09,888 --> 00:23:14,351
How can we do this cheap?
Because it may not work. [laughs]

409
00:23:15,352 --> 00:23:16,895
I mean, if you look at the store,

410
00:23:18,021 --> 00:23:20,273
it's all kind of falling apart now.

411
00:23:22,818 --> 00:23:26,613
Don't Drop the Soap.
Let me see what it says about that one.

412
00:23:27,447 --> 00:23:28,949
[Rachel]
What are you looking for?

413
00:23:29,032 --> 00:23:31,326
[Karen]
I'm just trying to find

414
00:23:32,077 --> 00:23:35,997
something that isn't quite as explicit.

415
00:23:36,081 --> 00:23:37,165
[Rachel]
What does he want?

416
00:23:37,249 --> 00:23:42,129
[Karen] He wants a white man
and no penetration, he said.

417
00:23:43,797 --> 00:23:46,091
Do these guys look white to you, Jorge?

418
00:23:47,843 --> 00:23:50,095
-Yeah, they're white, all of them.
-White? All of them?

419
00:23:50,178 --> 00:23:51,388
Okay, good.

420
00:23:52,097 --> 00:23:54,558
Okay, so we'll take this one.

421
00:23:55,308 --> 00:23:57,060
Do these guys look white?

422
00:23:59,020 --> 00:24:03,191
See, all these boxes are full of DVDs.

423
00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:09,739
We made all the titles in this list here.

424
00:24:09,823 --> 00:24:13,076
-[Rachel] You guys made all of those?
-[Karen] Yeah, those sent you to college.

425
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,412
[Rachel] These are the videos
that sent me to college?

426
00:24:15,495 --> 00:24:17,080
[Karen] They certainly helped.

427
00:24:21,001 --> 00:24:22,711
[Rachel]
What year were most of these made?

428
00:24:22,794 --> 00:24:25,130
[Karen] Oh, you can't photograph
those model releases.

429
00:24:25,213 --> 00:24:27,299
[Rachel] Mom, I'm just photographing
the title names.

430
00:24:27,382 --> 00:24:29,301
[Karen]
Okay, you gotta stop filming, Rachel.

431
00:24:34,347 --> 00:24:35,932
So, now, Mom?

432
00:24:36,016 --> 00:24:38,059
So, where we're going now is to this...

433
00:24:38,143 --> 00:24:42,898
It's called Adult...
ANME, Adult Novelty and...

434
00:24:44,483 --> 00:24:46,568
something Expo. ANME, yeah.

435
00:24:47,319 --> 00:24:50,197
And then I'm not going to this ever again.
It's the last time.

436
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,114
[Rachel] Why?

437
00:24:51,198 --> 00:24:53,241
[Karen]
Because I don't like it.

438
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,872
She said we're gonna meet in the lobby,
but I don't know where the lobby is.

439
00:24:58,955 --> 00:25:02,083
Can you just stop for one second,
so I can put this mic on you?

440
00:25:04,127 --> 00:25:07,380
[Karen] You can't just keep telling me
what I can and can't do.

441
00:25:07,464 --> 00:25:09,549
I run a little business,

442
00:25:10,133 --> 00:25:13,929
and I don't usually
have to answer to people.

443
00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:23,897
-[woman] Ellen's here.
-[Karen] Oh, hey, Ellen.

444
00:25:24,314 --> 00:25:25,732
I brought you an order.

445
00:25:26,650 --> 00:25:27,484
[Ellen] Excuse me.

446
00:25:27,567 --> 00:25:30,737
Yeah, I came--
This is a bigger camera than last time.

447
00:25:31,196 --> 00:25:32,864
I didn't wanna poke myself in the head.

448
00:25:32,948 --> 00:25:34,991
Okay, this is an order.

449
00:25:35,075 --> 00:25:36,159
-Okay?
-Okay.

450
00:25:36,243 --> 00:25:38,161
What kind of a special
do you have this time?

451
00:25:38,245 --> 00:25:39,621
-I got a big special for you.
-Okay.

452
00:25:39,704 --> 00:25:41,331
This gets rid of herpes, destroys herpes.

453
00:25:41,414 --> 00:25:44,584
Okay, we didn't do good with the...
We didn't do good...

454
00:25:45,043 --> 00:25:47,170
Just give us the stuff we always sell.

455
00:25:47,254 --> 00:25:49,756
We're not doing good with new stuff.

456
00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:51,800
The other thing that I have
that everybody likes,

457
00:25:51,883 --> 00:25:54,135
it's the lube, is the anal lube.

458
00:25:54,844 --> 00:25:57,847
-Which one is that?
-It's this one.

459
00:25:58,473 --> 00:26:00,433
I mean, it's doing really well.
It's our silicone.

460
00:26:00,517 --> 00:26:01,685
It's anal lube. It's silicone.

461
00:26:01,768 --> 00:26:03,520
It's got clove in it,
so it's kinda numbing.

462
00:26:03,603 --> 00:26:04,563
So it's not gonna tear--

463
00:26:04,646 --> 00:26:06,439
-Okay, but do you have a smaller size?
-Yeah.

464
00:26:06,523 --> 00:26:09,609
-Okay, so send me, like, 12.
-It comes in a fishbowl.

465
00:26:09,693 --> 00:26:10,569
Okay, all right.

466
00:26:10,652 --> 00:26:11,736
-You want a fishbowl?
-Yeah.

467
00:26:11,820 --> 00:26:13,363
-Okay, so just add that.
-I'll do that.

468
00:26:13,446 --> 00:26:15,532
Okay, that's a nice order, Ellen.

469
00:26:16,116 --> 00:26:18,827
We're placing an order
for those pills from China.

470
00:26:18,910 --> 00:26:20,870
I guess you only have 200 left.

471
00:26:20,954 --> 00:26:23,164
We got lots. I bought lots.
We received a lot.

472
00:26:23,248 --> 00:26:25,792
Okay, is that still selling okay?
'Cause, uh... Hello.

473
00:26:25,875 --> 00:26:27,127
-How are you?
-Okay.

474
00:26:27,210 --> 00:26:29,212
-Good to see you. How's everything?
-Okay.

475
00:26:29,296 --> 00:26:30,213
[vendor 1] Yeah?

476
00:26:30,297 --> 00:26:31,464
[vendor 2] How's Barry doing?

477
00:26:31,548 --> 00:26:32,882
[Karen] He's good, yeah.

478
00:26:32,966 --> 00:26:35,010
What happened to Frankie?

479
00:26:35,093 --> 00:26:37,304
-[vendor 3] Are you Circus of Books in LA?
-[Karen] Yeah.

480
00:26:37,387 --> 00:26:38,805
[vendor 3]
I've been to your stores.

481
00:26:38,888 --> 00:26:39,973
-You're the owner?
-Yeah.

482
00:26:40,056 --> 00:26:41,516
-Whoa! Good for you!
-[Karen] Yeah.

483
00:26:42,350 --> 00:26:43,268
Hello.

484
00:26:43,852 --> 00:26:47,105
All right, so what do you have
besides a good name?

485
00:26:47,522 --> 00:26:50,025
Yeah, this is gay, right?

486
00:26:50,108 --> 00:26:52,819
-Or not necessarily?
-[vendor 4] Uh... Not necessarily.

487
00:26:52,902 --> 00:26:54,279
-Clamps...
-Okay.

488
00:26:54,362 --> 00:26:57,198
Don't explain anything to me. Just, uh...

489
00:26:57,282 --> 00:27:00,869
If it's not for gay, then that's
the reason we didn't do any business.

490
00:27:00,952 --> 00:27:02,954
[Rachel] What's something
that would do well for you?

491
00:27:03,038 --> 00:27:05,832
[Karen]
Here, like this whole wall of stuff.

492
00:27:05,915 --> 00:27:08,293
But I don't particularly enjoy
looking at it,

493
00:27:08,376 --> 00:27:11,796
so I can notice it without looking at it.

494
00:27:12,756 --> 00:27:15,383
So, this wall
would probably do well for us,

495
00:27:15,467 --> 00:27:16,676
whatever it is.

496
00:27:17,927 --> 00:27:19,929
-That's it. Now, can we go?
-[Rachel] Yeah.

497
00:27:23,516 --> 00:27:26,811
We hired the people
who ran the store for the old owners,

498
00:27:26,895 --> 00:27:30,106
and they really taught us
what we needed to know

499
00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:34,152
about how to get the merchandise,
which was the key to the whole thing.

500
00:27:34,861 --> 00:27:38,490
I'm one of the buyers
for the condoms, the lubricants,

501
00:27:38,573 --> 00:27:40,325
and some of the sale video.

502
00:27:40,742 --> 00:27:43,036
They pretty much let me decide.

503
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,081
You know, and if I make mistakes,
it's no big deal.

504
00:27:46,164 --> 00:27:49,417
Karen and Barry were the absolute best.

505
00:27:50,001 --> 00:27:51,920
They were so good to me.

506
00:27:52,420 --> 00:27:55,590
It was always my dream
to work in a porn store.

507
00:27:55,674 --> 00:27:59,844
I'm a weirdo
and kind of a pervert, I guess. [laughs]

508
00:27:59,928 --> 00:28:02,972
[Ben Liefke] The heyday of this place
was really, really jammin'.

509
00:28:03,556 --> 00:28:06,893
People spent money on books,
magazines, you know,

510
00:28:06,976 --> 00:28:08,478
whatever they wanted to.

511
00:28:08,561 --> 00:28:09,813
Within the month, we opened,

512
00:28:09,896 --> 00:28:12,816
and the first day,
the store did over $1,000.

513
00:28:16,361 --> 00:28:18,655
[Liefke] You got your magazines
on that side of the store,

514
00:28:18,738 --> 00:28:21,700
and your real graphic,
adult magazines were on this side.

515
00:28:25,328 --> 00:28:28,998
There was an alley behind Circus of Books
called Vaseline Alley.

516
00:28:29,082 --> 00:28:31,876
Every community
that has a big gay population

517
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,753
has a Vaseline Alley.

518
00:28:34,587 --> 00:28:37,549
It was a place where gay sex happens.

519
00:28:38,091 --> 00:28:42,345
I lost my virginity in the alley
behind Circus of Books...

520
00:28:42,429 --> 00:28:43,847
with a cop in training.

521
00:28:43,930 --> 00:28:47,142
I mean, this was, like,
every queer boy's wet dream.

522
00:28:47,767 --> 00:28:49,310
[Liefke] On my first night here,

523
00:28:49,394 --> 00:28:51,146
there's this guy in that corner...

524
00:28:51,229 --> 00:28:53,481
This is not even on the adult side.

525
00:28:53,565 --> 00:28:56,568
...with his pants down, stroking.

526
00:28:57,318 --> 00:29:00,405
And I'm like,
"Son of a bitch! My first night here,

527
00:29:00,488 --> 00:29:01,364
and this happens."

528
00:29:01,948 --> 00:29:04,159
[Fernando Aguilar]
You could walk back to the back room,

529
00:29:04,242 --> 00:29:07,495
and there were some steps to the attic,

530
00:29:07,579 --> 00:29:08,413
and...

531
00:29:09,456 --> 00:29:11,249
I had sex in the attic.

532
00:29:11,332 --> 00:29:13,793
Not full-on sex in the attic, but...

533
00:29:13,877 --> 00:29:15,628
I've never even been up there.

534
00:29:16,546 --> 00:29:18,923
I didn't even know that existed.

535
00:29:19,466 --> 00:29:21,092
I missed out, man.

536
00:29:21,843 --> 00:29:23,803
[Rachel] Did you ever hear
about any of that stuff?

537
00:29:24,721 --> 00:29:28,308
You know, I heard about it,
but I didn't think they were so crazy.

538
00:29:28,391 --> 00:29:30,435
The whole operation was a little goofy,

539
00:29:30,518 --> 00:29:33,271
so it would have
to be something incredible

540
00:29:33,354 --> 00:29:36,441
for me to find it really crazy.

541
00:29:36,524 --> 00:29:39,110
When Barry walked in, you didn't change.

542
00:29:39,194 --> 00:29:41,321
You still continued reading a magazine.

543
00:29:41,404 --> 00:29:42,947
"Hey, Barry, how's it going?"

544
00:29:43,031 --> 00:29:45,158
When Karen walked in, phew,

545
00:29:45,241 --> 00:29:47,660
that magazine flew to the back.

546
00:29:48,161 --> 00:29:49,913
Your dad has always been
the very mellow one.

547
00:29:49,996 --> 00:29:52,582
He's not the one
that wears the pants in the family.

548
00:29:53,416 --> 00:29:55,043
I shouldn't say that on camera.

549
00:29:55,543 --> 00:29:59,422
They were very, like,
no-bullshit, no-nonsense.

550
00:29:59,506 --> 00:30:03,176
"If you steal from us, you will be fired,
and that's that."

551
00:30:04,260 --> 00:30:07,305
[Karen]
In the '80s, adult material was expensive,

552
00:30:07,388 --> 00:30:09,849
and it was illegal in some places,

553
00:30:09,933 --> 00:30:12,227
and if you could sell it,
you could make a lot of money.

554
00:30:15,730 --> 00:30:17,482
A manager said to us,

555
00:30:17,565 --> 00:30:21,069
"You should open a Circus of Books
in Silver Lake,

556
00:30:21,152 --> 00:30:24,447
and this will become your biggest store,"
and it did.

557
00:30:26,533 --> 00:30:29,202
[Alaska] They're not offended.
They're not scandalized.

558
00:30:29,285 --> 00:30:30,161
It's their job.

559
00:30:30,245 --> 00:30:33,248
It's like they're selling apples
at an apple cart.

560
00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:37,544
[Karen] I don't think we had
any misgivings about doing it.

561
00:30:37,627 --> 00:30:40,463
We just felt
it was gonna be a very temporary thing

562
00:30:40,547 --> 00:30:44,676
until something came along that was, um...

563
00:30:46,553 --> 00:30:47,512
more substantial.

564
00:30:47,595 --> 00:30:51,933
Because, I mean, we're college graduates,
and we had careers.

565
00:30:52,851 --> 00:30:55,854
That was, like, not anything
anyone would do,

566
00:30:55,937 --> 00:30:58,773
and we certainly wouldn't tell anyone
we were doing it.

567
00:30:59,274 --> 00:31:02,610
[Rachel] So then what led you
to start making the adult movies?

568
00:31:03,611 --> 00:31:04,445
Oh...

569
00:31:04,529 --> 00:31:07,490
[cameraman] This way just a tad.
There you go. Yeah, that's it.

570
00:31:07,574 --> 00:31:12,161
[Karen] Somebody knew a very famous
hardcore gay movie producer,

571
00:31:12,245 --> 00:31:13,371
Matt Sterling.

572
00:31:14,247 --> 00:31:16,541
[Barry] He was looking
for a legitimate distributor

573
00:31:16,624 --> 00:31:17,750
who he could trust.

574
00:31:17,834 --> 00:31:22,088
And he was coming out with this new movie,
which no doubt was gonna be a hit,

575
00:31:22,171 --> 00:31:24,716
because it was also gonna star
that, at that time, very famous--

576
00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:26,593
-Jeff Stryker.
-Jeff Stryker.

577
00:31:26,676 --> 00:31:29,137
-[Karen] Who was already famous.
-[Barry] Who was very famous.

578
00:31:29,220 --> 00:31:33,099
[Alaska] I mean, Jeff Stryker was, like,
a superstar of gay porn.

579
00:31:33,224 --> 00:31:35,268
He was one of the biggest, you know.

580
00:31:35,351 --> 00:31:36,603
[laughs] No pun intended.

581
00:31:37,812 --> 00:31:39,731
♪ Lookin' so good, feelin' good ♪

582
00:31:39,814 --> 00:31:41,983
♪ When you know things are going right ♪

583
00:31:43,943 --> 00:31:46,279
Are you willing to give me
whatever I want?

584
00:31:46,654 --> 00:31:47,572
Anything.

585
00:31:48,698 --> 00:31:51,409
♪ 'Cause I know who I am ♪

586
00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:54,412
♪ I'll do all I can now ♪

587
00:31:54,996 --> 00:31:58,249
♪ I'm a new man, dreams have come true ♪

588
00:32:00,001 --> 00:32:01,586
♪ Bigger than life ♪

589
00:32:03,755 --> 00:32:05,089
♪ Yeah! ♪

590
00:32:07,842 --> 00:32:11,721
Hello. My name is Jeff Stryker, and...

591
00:32:13,014 --> 00:32:14,933
here I am. [laughs]

592
00:32:15,016 --> 00:32:17,936
This is the Jeff Stryker action figure.

593
00:32:18,311 --> 00:32:21,814
It's 12 inches tall, anatomically correct,

594
00:32:21,898 --> 00:32:24,275
and the penis is pose-able.

595
00:32:24,359 --> 00:32:26,069
[laughs]

596
00:32:26,152 --> 00:32:29,697
That's what I got over... an edge on Ken.

597
00:32:30,740 --> 00:32:33,409
You would never expect these people

598
00:32:33,493 --> 00:32:36,788
to be distributing adult movies worldwide,

599
00:32:37,163 --> 00:32:40,291
but they looked at it
the same way I looked at it.

600
00:32:40,375 --> 00:32:42,043
You're creating a product,

601
00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:44,671
and it's the supply and demand.

602
00:32:44,754 --> 00:32:46,631
It's just business sense.

603
00:32:47,423 --> 00:32:50,343
[Karen]
It was strictly an opportunity.

604
00:32:50,802 --> 00:32:53,763
So we started a business, um...

605
00:32:54,597 --> 00:33:00,520
that made hardcore gay... films.

606
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:08,528
They made Stryker Force,

607
00:33:08,987 --> 00:33:11,280
and it was hard to keep up
with the demand.

608
00:33:13,908 --> 00:33:15,410
People were calling us

609
00:33:16,035 --> 00:33:18,746
and insisting we ship them
the tape already.

610
00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:21,290
I said, "I don't even have it yet.
I can't ship it to you."

611
00:33:21,374 --> 00:33:23,251
It was like a panic to get this tape.

612
00:33:25,336 --> 00:33:27,880
In fact, we had him at our store
signing the tapes,

613
00:33:27,964 --> 00:33:29,716
and there's a big line of customers.

614
00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:33,511
Barry would bring stack after stack
of these boxes,

615
00:33:33,594 --> 00:33:36,723
and I would sign
as long as they could supply them.

616
00:33:38,725 --> 00:33:41,227
[Barry] Other people,
when they knew we were distributing,

617
00:33:41,310 --> 00:33:44,022
they would come to us too and say,
"Would you do ours?"

618
00:33:44,105 --> 00:33:48,192
Of course, by then, we'd hired
another fellow to sell the tapes.

619
00:33:48,276 --> 00:33:50,528
[Freddie Bercovitz]
Barry and Karen were behind the scenes,

620
00:33:50,611 --> 00:33:53,031
they wanted somebody like me
to be their front man for them.

621
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,408
When we first started,

622
00:33:55,491 --> 00:33:57,910
we might have been releasing one movie
every six weeks.

623
00:33:57,994 --> 00:34:00,121
And somewhere in the middle of that,

624
00:34:00,204 --> 00:34:02,165
we were releasing two movies a week.

625
00:34:03,416 --> 00:34:06,127
It was like riding a tiger,
we used to say.

626
00:34:09,213 --> 00:34:11,841
[Stryker] So many companies wanted
to do business with them

627
00:34:11,924 --> 00:34:15,011
because they're good, honest,
trustworthy people,

628
00:34:15,094 --> 00:34:17,722
and in the adult industry,

629
00:34:17,805 --> 00:34:20,475
that was a rare bird at the time.

630
00:34:20,558 --> 00:34:23,394
This is one of the compilations
I made for Barry and Karen.

631
00:34:23,478 --> 00:34:26,147
It's called Rimnastics Gold Part 2.

632
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:29,734
"Video 10 Distributors has uncovered
even more hot rimming scenes

633
00:34:29,817 --> 00:34:32,612
to bring you Rimnastics Gold Part 2.

634
00:34:32,695 --> 00:34:35,865
It's more than fantastic.
Its rim-tastic."

635
00:34:35,948 --> 00:34:38,201
[Rachel giggles]
Sorry. Oh, my God!

636
00:34:39,118 --> 00:34:41,954
[Karen] It never felt like
we were getting into pornography.

637
00:34:42,038 --> 00:34:44,248
We were just getting
into a different business

638
00:34:44,332 --> 00:34:46,709
that was related
to the business we were already in.

639
00:34:47,210 --> 00:34:48,795
We never saw any of those movies.

640
00:34:54,634 --> 00:34:57,887
At one point,
we were probably the biggest distributor

641
00:34:57,970 --> 00:35:01,682
of hardcore gay films
in the United States.

642
00:35:03,226 --> 00:35:06,979
[Stryker]
It was a very lucrative market,

643
00:35:07,063 --> 00:35:09,816
but you really took major chances,

644
00:35:09,899 --> 00:35:13,361
major chances of imprisonment

645
00:35:13,444 --> 00:35:18,199
in any part of, uh, the adult movies.

646
00:35:19,408 --> 00:35:21,702
[Karen]
Adult material, especially at that time,

647
00:35:21,786 --> 00:35:24,372
was a pretty polarizing thing.

648
00:35:25,331 --> 00:35:29,085
There were always people on the right

649
00:35:29,168 --> 00:35:32,839
who looked out
for things they could demonize.

650
00:35:32,922 --> 00:35:37,093
Obscene publications are socially harmful.

651
00:35:37,176 --> 00:35:39,804
The Department of Justice says
that pornography is a problem

652
00:35:39,887 --> 00:35:42,056
that pervades all levels of society.

653
00:35:42,140 --> 00:35:44,934
Should therefore be solved
by all levels of government.

654
00:35:45,017 --> 00:35:49,605
Their anti-porn plan is expected
to involve state and local participation.

655
00:35:49,689 --> 00:35:53,818
This was led by Meese,
the Attorney General for Ronald Reagan.

656
00:35:55,862 --> 00:35:57,321
This administration is putting

657
00:35:57,405 --> 00:35:59,991
the purveyors of illegal obscenity
on notice.

658
00:36:01,659 --> 00:36:02,827
[inaudible]

659
00:36:05,705 --> 00:36:08,666
[Karen] I never felt free
to let anybody know what we did.

660
00:36:10,585 --> 00:36:13,588
I don't think you would have cared,
but I didn't want it.

661
00:36:13,671 --> 00:36:16,716
Right, I just didn't talk
'cause she didn't want me to.

662
00:36:17,258 --> 00:36:19,343
She preferred that I not tell people.

663
00:36:22,054 --> 00:36:23,848
[Karen] If you went somewhere,
and you said,

664
00:36:23,931 --> 00:36:25,183
"Well, I own Circus of Books,"

665
00:36:25,266 --> 00:36:28,227
people would say to you,
"Oh, I don't have any problem with that."

666
00:36:28,311 --> 00:36:30,521
So, it was like you were being judged.

667
00:36:30,605 --> 00:36:33,691
I mean, you don't go up to somebody
when they say they're a teacher

668
00:36:33,774 --> 00:36:36,068
and say,
"I don't have any problem with that."

669
00:36:36,152 --> 00:36:38,321
Or, "I'm a lawyer."
"I don't have any problem with that"

670
00:36:38,404 --> 00:36:41,574
But they would say that to us.
"I don't have any problem with that."

671
00:36:41,657 --> 00:36:45,036
And they probably did have a problem
with that. I had a problem with that.

672
00:36:46,621 --> 00:36:52,001
[Winer] Karen's problem with the whole
sexually-explicit inventory,

673
00:36:52,084 --> 00:36:55,588
a lot of it, I think,
has to do with her faith.

674
00:36:56,547 --> 00:37:00,092
She was raised
in a conservative household.

675
00:37:00,927 --> 00:37:04,680
She loves to be
in synagogue all day praying.

676
00:37:07,642 --> 00:37:09,977
[Karen]
Well, I always say we're a mixed marriage,

677
00:37:10,061 --> 00:37:13,147
because I'm the religious person,
and he's not.

678
00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:16,692
He doesn't particularly like
anything very spiritual, I don't think.

679
00:37:17,276 --> 00:37:18,903
-Pretty accurate.
-Yeah.

680
00:37:19,570 --> 00:37:22,740
[singing in Hebrew]

681
00:37:22,823 --> 00:37:24,700
[Karen]
We've always belonged to a synagogue.

682
00:37:25,243 --> 00:37:27,995
Although, the synagogues never knew
what we were doing.

683
00:37:28,746 --> 00:37:31,958
[Micah] She was very afraid
that the business, if it got out,

684
00:37:32,041 --> 00:37:34,377
would impact those relationships.

685
00:37:34,460 --> 00:37:37,213
[singing continues]

686
00:37:38,256 --> 00:37:42,426
[Rachel] Do you feel like we had a lot
of, like, religious education or...

687
00:37:42,843 --> 00:37:44,720
So, I feel it was really complicated.

688
00:37:46,722 --> 00:37:47,640
Mom was kind of caught

689
00:37:47,723 --> 00:37:51,852
between this stuffy,
conservative synagogue.

690
00:37:53,145 --> 00:37:54,897
But that's what she was born with.

691
00:37:55,815 --> 00:37:58,192
And us growing up in West Hollywood,

692
00:37:58,609 --> 00:38:01,153
which is just really secular
and liberal...

693
00:38:02,655 --> 00:38:06,951
So, I feel like
it was kind of forced on us...

694
00:38:07,952 --> 00:38:09,537
and not in a soft way.

695
00:38:10,288 --> 00:38:12,164
Mom's usual force of nature,

696
00:38:12,248 --> 00:38:14,333
"You are going to Sunday school"
kind of way.

697
00:38:14,417 --> 00:38:17,253
[Karen] Just go ahead. You have
the Torah out. You have to be respectful.

698
00:38:17,336 --> 00:38:20,089
Now, come on. Find your...
Come back here and find your spot.

699
00:38:20,172 --> 00:38:21,465
But, Mom...

700
00:38:21,549 --> 00:38:23,634
[Karen] Find your spot.

701
00:38:25,928 --> 00:38:29,181
[Micah] My reaction
to a lot of the pressure was to be quiet.

702
00:38:30,975 --> 00:38:32,268
I know you fought with Mom a lot

703
00:38:32,351 --> 00:38:34,729
'cause you wouldn't dress
the way she wanted you to.

704
00:38:35,688 --> 00:38:37,023
Definitely did your own thing.

705
00:38:37,106 --> 00:38:41,068
[Josh singing in Hebrew]

706
00:38:41,152 --> 00:38:43,279
[Micah]
But I'm guessing Josh's reaction was,

707
00:38:43,362 --> 00:38:45,865
"Fine, I'm doing what I'm gonna do,
and I'm gonna do it perfect."

708
00:38:48,617 --> 00:38:55,082
[Josh] I think I absorbed the most
of Mom's ambition towards perfection.

709
00:38:57,126 --> 00:39:02,381
I was always looking
to give a positive image to them,

710
00:39:02,465 --> 00:39:03,841
to everyone else.

711
00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:06,427
[man] Use your power! Kick the thing!

712
00:39:06,844 --> 00:39:09,388
[Barry]
Just spread out, Joshua. All right!

713
00:39:09,472 --> 00:39:11,474
[man] Get the ball!

714
00:39:12,516 --> 00:39:14,727
[Josh] I wanted to be perfect.

715
00:39:18,522 --> 00:39:21,817
Do you remember writing this book
when you were a kid? [laughs]

716
00:39:21,901 --> 00:39:22,735
Don't remember it.

717
00:39:22,818 --> 00:39:26,280
[Rachel]
It's called Boy by Joshua Mason.

718
00:39:27,656 --> 00:39:31,118
"In the future, my family would consist
of my beautiful wife,

719
00:39:31,827 --> 00:39:32,995
me, and my three kids.

720
00:39:33,537 --> 00:39:37,083
I would live in a world so close to heaven
it would be unreal."

721
00:39:37,875 --> 00:39:38,793
Oh, my God!

722
00:39:43,130 --> 00:39:47,301
I distinctly remember
"gay" being a bad word.

723
00:39:49,637 --> 00:39:52,556
It was one of those words
that you used about bad things.

724
00:39:56,185 --> 00:39:59,522
I definitely perceived that it was wrong.

725
00:40:08,656 --> 00:40:09,657
[Rachel] All right.

726
00:40:10,741 --> 00:40:12,159
[Barry] Keys for her store.

727
00:40:12,827 --> 00:40:15,788
-Tom's gonna pull another 100 today.
-[Rachel] Oh!

728
00:40:15,871 --> 00:40:16,956
And over the weekend.

729
00:40:18,249 --> 00:40:20,334
This used to be ten times more than this.

730
00:40:20,418 --> 00:40:22,420
[Rachel]
I know. It seems like it's hardly any now.

731
00:40:22,503 --> 00:40:24,672
That's it. There's still a lot,

732
00:40:24,755 --> 00:40:26,966
but it's not nearly as much
as it used to be.

733
00:40:27,049 --> 00:40:30,428
[Rachel] Yeah. Did you know
many of the people in these films?

734
00:40:30,511 --> 00:40:33,305
[Barry]
Uh, I know some of the more famous ones.

735
00:40:33,389 --> 00:40:35,599
The Matt Sterling one,
that was a very famous one,

736
00:40:35,683 --> 00:40:38,769
and Jeff Stryker,
he was a very famous guy.

737
00:40:38,853 --> 00:40:41,730
-[Rachel] What happened to Matt Sterling?
-[Barry] Died. He died.

738
00:40:41,814 --> 00:40:44,108
Yeah, I know a lot
of the producers of them.

739
00:40:44,191 --> 00:40:46,527
How many people would you think died

740
00:40:47,027 --> 00:40:48,821
in, like, a lot of these movies?

741
00:40:48,904 --> 00:40:51,949
A lot. When AIDS was going around,
a lot of them died then.

742
00:40:52,032 --> 00:40:55,161
How old were a lot of them?
Like, what would the average age be?

743
00:40:55,244 --> 00:40:58,038
[Barry]
In their 20s and 30s maybe.

744
00:40:58,539 --> 00:41:00,749
Those would be the ones
I would see in the hospice,

745
00:41:00,833 --> 00:41:02,501
those guys I knew or...

746
00:41:03,419 --> 00:41:05,754
But a lot of them didn't do that.
I didn't even know.

747
00:41:05,838 --> 00:41:06,797
They would just go home,

748
00:41:06,881 --> 00:41:09,383
maybe back to Wisconsin
or wherever they were from,

749
00:41:10,009 --> 00:41:12,428
and, uh... that was it.

750
00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:20,186
[Tarley] Barry and Karen enjoyed
a strange, freakish vantage point

751
00:41:20,269 --> 00:41:24,190
to bear witness to the epidemic
without being part of it.

752
00:41:24,815 --> 00:41:26,817
I mean, my God! They ran a sex business.

753
00:41:27,818 --> 00:41:31,363
That was the locus of the population
of the people that were dying.

754
00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:37,328
[Romanoff] Nobody knew
what it was caused from at first,

755
00:41:37,912 --> 00:41:39,872
and people were avoiding each other.

756
00:41:42,333 --> 00:41:44,293
We just didn't understand it.

757
00:41:46,587 --> 00:41:50,424
We were afraid of each other.

758
00:41:50,966 --> 00:41:52,801
[Ted Koppel]
More than 800 cases nationwide,

759
00:41:52,885 --> 00:41:56,680
and yet still
surprisingly few people are familiar

760
00:41:56,764 --> 00:41:59,266
with the Acquired Immune Deficiency
Syndrome.

761
00:42:00,017 --> 00:42:02,561
The reason for that may lie in part

762
00:42:02,645 --> 00:42:05,314
in the character
of its most common victims,

763
00:42:05,397 --> 00:42:09,443
homosexual males
who frequently change sexual partners.

764
00:42:15,533 --> 00:42:17,618
[Barry]
We lost so many of our employees,

765
00:42:17,701 --> 00:42:21,038
and nice people.
I mean really nice people.

766
00:42:21,914 --> 00:42:24,375
[Karen] Talented, bright, young.

767
00:42:25,918 --> 00:42:28,379
It was a real, real tragedy.

768
00:42:29,713 --> 00:42:32,883
Ninety percent
of the people I knew at that time

769
00:42:33,551 --> 00:42:34,969
are no longer here.

770
00:42:37,513 --> 00:42:43,185
[Karen] I remember Barry
visiting an employee who was in bed.

771
00:42:45,312 --> 00:42:49,275
[Barry] We would call the parents and say,
"Hey, your son is sick.

772
00:42:49,358 --> 00:42:51,068
Don't you wanna come and..."

773
00:42:51,151 --> 00:42:53,279
A lot of them would just say,
"No, I don't.

774
00:42:53,362 --> 00:42:56,490
I kicked him out.
I never wanna see the guy again."

775
00:42:56,949 --> 00:42:58,409
I'd say, "But he's your son."

776
00:43:00,703 --> 00:43:02,496
I was just so surprised

777
00:43:02,580 --> 00:43:05,165
that the parents could be so bad
to their children.

778
00:43:05,749 --> 00:43:07,668
And I didn't think
about the gay part of it.

779
00:43:07,751 --> 00:43:09,587
It was just their children.

780
00:43:15,926 --> 00:43:20,806
[Karen] The employee who worked
so closely with us to open that store

781
00:43:21,432 --> 00:43:23,601
went home on a Friday

782
00:43:24,143 --> 00:43:25,894
and died on Monday.

783
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,773
We were working with him until...

784
00:43:30,524 --> 00:43:34,403
literally, until he passed away.

785
00:43:36,155 --> 00:43:40,993
And I remember taking a call
from his mother after he died.

786
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:45,331
She wasn't in touch with him
during that period,

787
00:43:45,414 --> 00:43:49,043
and I think she was feeling bad.
I don't know what she wanted from me.

788
00:43:49,126 --> 00:43:51,086
But she should have visited him.

789
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,840
-It was a horrible, horrible time.
-[Barry] Yeah, really bad time.

790
00:43:57,343 --> 00:43:59,345
[Rachel]
I remember going to the store

791
00:43:59,428 --> 00:44:03,599
and being like, "Oh, where's so-and-so?"
"Oh, he just died."

792
00:44:05,351 --> 00:44:06,477
Something seemed...

793
00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:09,730
like a horror about that to me,

794
00:44:09,813 --> 00:44:11,940
but I didn't understand it
till much later.

795
00:44:12,024 --> 00:44:15,069
I know they supported the gay community.

796
00:44:15,152 --> 00:44:17,321
I mean, they didn't set out to,
but they did.

797
00:44:17,404 --> 00:44:22,451
They were not gonna let
other forces tell them what to do.

798
00:44:24,036 --> 00:44:27,331
I think what we did was
small, human kindnesses

799
00:44:27,414 --> 00:44:28,832
in a very small way.

800
00:44:32,419 --> 00:44:35,923
[John Weston] Government officials
will very often use pornography

801
00:44:36,006 --> 00:44:41,345
as a means of deflecting attention away
from their failures to do something.

802
00:44:43,472 --> 00:44:46,934
[news reporter] Attorney General Meese
accepted the pornography report today.

803
00:44:47,017 --> 00:44:53,065
Obscenity, that illegal activity,
it is not the kind of thing

804
00:44:53,148 --> 00:44:56,151
that is subject
to the protection of the First Amendment.

805
00:44:56,235 --> 00:44:59,321
When that Meese commission was on,
I would read about it all the time,

806
00:44:59,405 --> 00:45:02,366
and it was a totally stacked deck.

807
00:45:02,449 --> 00:45:05,994
Everybody that testified
was anti-pornography people.

808
00:45:06,995 --> 00:45:11,166
So, the outcome was absolutely assured.
They were just gonna say it was no good.

809
00:45:11,250 --> 00:45:13,001
[news reporter]
Opponents say the commission

810
00:45:13,085 --> 00:45:15,629
is using a half-million dollar report
to moralize.

811
00:45:15,713 --> 00:45:19,967
The government is attempting
to obtain self-censorship

812
00:45:20,050 --> 00:45:23,470
by the threat
of these draconian sanctions.

813
00:45:23,929 --> 00:45:26,557
[Flynt]
They had a multi-million dollar task force

814
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,559
with all the money they needed

815
00:45:28,642 --> 00:45:30,561
with one mission, you know,

816
00:45:31,103 --> 00:45:34,273
to control people's reading
and viewing habits

817
00:45:34,356 --> 00:45:37,693
and their sexual habits if they could.

818
00:45:37,776 --> 00:45:40,946
Isn't it about time
we remove the profit motive

819
00:45:41,029 --> 00:45:43,490
from activities that are sick and obscene?

820
00:45:43,574 --> 00:45:45,576
[applause]

821
00:45:49,747 --> 00:45:51,832
[Karen]
One of the things you did in those days,

822
00:45:52,624 --> 00:45:56,962
was you only sold movies
to people you knew.

823
00:45:57,045 --> 00:46:00,382
So, we sold movies all over the country,

824
00:46:00,466 --> 00:46:02,676
but only to companies
we'd been dealing with.

825
00:46:03,844 --> 00:46:08,098
One day, somebody called up
and ordered three films

826
00:46:08,182 --> 00:46:12,352
to, like, Joe's Video Store,
in Lebanon, Pennsylvania.

827
00:46:12,436 --> 00:46:16,523
And our guy entered him in the computer
and shipped them out.

828
00:46:17,191 --> 00:46:19,276
Unbeknownst to us,

829
00:46:19,359 --> 00:46:22,988
the prosecutor begins this process

830
00:46:23,071 --> 00:46:28,619
of illegal transportation
of adult material over state lines.

831
00:46:29,828 --> 00:46:31,663
They were running a sting operation.

832
00:46:33,791 --> 00:46:37,169
The FBI comes in,
like you see on television

833
00:46:37,252 --> 00:46:38,879
with FBI on their...

834
00:46:38,962 --> 00:46:42,382
-Jackets. Big letters.
-...jackets, and their guns drawn.

835
00:46:43,759 --> 00:46:46,637
[police officer] We made some
undercover purchases of this stuff,

836
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:49,181
and after consultation
with the Prosecuting Attorney, uh,

837
00:46:49,598 --> 00:46:51,266
they issued us a search warrant.

838
00:46:54,937 --> 00:46:58,524
[Barry] We were charged
with shipping obscene material.

839
00:47:00,692 --> 00:47:03,904
It easily could have been
a five-year jail sentence or maybe more,

840
00:47:03,987 --> 00:47:07,157
and the fines could have been
very, very large.

841
00:47:10,452 --> 00:47:14,957
One of us was gonna have to go to jail,
and I thought it had better be Barry.

842
00:47:16,834 --> 00:47:19,002
[Weston]
That lead prosecutor had

843
00:47:19,086 --> 00:47:22,798
put together a staff
of very religious people,

844
00:47:23,340 --> 00:47:26,468
and he himself was very anti-porn.

845
00:47:27,094 --> 00:47:29,972
So they said
Barry has to enter a guilty plea.

846
00:47:30,597 --> 00:47:33,308
He has to be convicted
and made guilty of a felony.

847
00:47:35,686 --> 00:47:39,690
[Flynt] Jail is the worst place
in the world you can be, but...

848
00:47:39,773 --> 00:47:42,401
fearing jail is...

849
00:47:43,068 --> 00:47:44,486
even worse.

850
00:47:46,238 --> 00:47:49,324
[Karen] It was like a knife
over our heads all the time.

851
00:47:50,534 --> 00:47:53,871
We never ever talked about it
with anybody.

852
00:47:54,746 --> 00:47:56,748
Our parents didn't know what was going on.

853
00:47:57,416 --> 00:47:59,710
The kids didn't know what was going on.

854
00:47:59,793 --> 00:48:02,754
Our friends didn't know what was going on.

855
00:48:04,006 --> 00:48:07,009
I felt like I was going down
in an elevator

856
00:48:07,092 --> 00:48:10,345
and was losing everything
that was inside of me.

857
00:48:17,144 --> 00:48:19,730
[Rachel]
Did you know about the FBI charges?

858
00:48:19,813 --> 00:48:22,190
[Josh]
I didn't know about the prosecution.

859
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:24,484
I think I'd heard...

860
00:48:25,319 --> 00:48:30,741
something about a video being mailed
to Pennsylvania.

861
00:48:31,325 --> 00:48:33,493
They completely hid that
from us growing up.

862
00:48:33,577 --> 00:48:35,746
I don't remember knowing
about that at all.

863
00:48:36,622 --> 00:48:40,250
We just were completely kept in the dark
because... you know, we were kids,

864
00:48:40,334 --> 00:48:42,461
and we're not supposed to be
anywhere near that stuff.

865
00:48:42,544 --> 00:48:43,837
So because of that,

866
00:48:43,921 --> 00:48:46,131
I didn't have much of a connection
to the business.

867
00:48:49,343 --> 00:48:52,220
[Rachel]
Did you feel any connection to the store?

868
00:48:52,304 --> 00:48:57,184
I think the store definitely operated
in its own sphere outside the family,

869
00:48:57,267 --> 00:48:59,603
but I think that's fairly...

870
00:48:59,686 --> 00:49:01,939
There's a conventional element to that.

871
00:49:03,065 --> 00:49:04,066
Parents go to work.

872
00:49:04,149 --> 00:49:07,069
They don't necessarily talk
about what they do all the time.

873
00:49:08,111 --> 00:49:09,947
[woman 1] Stop rubbing your eyes!

874
00:49:11,907 --> 00:49:16,453
[Josh] I think the family at home
fell into a conventional pattern.

875
00:49:16,536 --> 00:49:18,622
-[Karen] Did Josh say that to you?
-[woman 2] Really?

876
00:49:18,705 --> 00:49:19,998
[Young Rachel] Yeah, he did.

877
00:49:20,749 --> 00:49:24,878
[Josh] We all talked about kids,
getting married, and being straight.

878
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:28,590
Nobody sort of questioned it.

879
00:49:31,843 --> 00:49:34,346
I think even my understanding of...

880
00:49:35,389 --> 00:49:39,267
um, gays and gay life was through...

881
00:49:40,185 --> 00:49:42,437
through the business in a strange way.

882
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,359
And I would like to say,
you've been a pretty good kid.

883
00:49:47,442 --> 00:49:49,528
I really like being your mother.

884
00:49:52,572 --> 00:49:54,282
Realizing I was gay

885
00:49:54,366 --> 00:50:00,038
was a kind of long, ambiguous period.

886
00:50:02,749 --> 00:50:05,502
I was keeping that secret
from the world...

887
00:50:06,837 --> 00:50:10,007
'cause being gay was not acceptable.

888
00:50:14,052 --> 00:50:16,722
[Rachel]
But did you ever know or see people

889
00:50:16,805 --> 00:50:18,682
that just were gay, like,

890
00:50:18,765 --> 00:50:22,144
and that, you know, you recognized
and like, "Oh, that's gay.

891
00:50:22,227 --> 00:50:24,980
-That's cool. That's like a thing."
-No. Definitely not.

892
00:50:25,063 --> 00:50:28,275
[chuckles]
I think I was kind of actively ignoring...

893
00:50:28,900 --> 00:50:29,943
um...

894
00:50:30,652 --> 00:50:32,779
all the gay issues in the world...

895
00:50:33,363 --> 00:50:36,658
much like my straight high school friends.

896
00:50:36,742 --> 00:50:41,038
You just didn't talk about gays
or, you know, what it was like.

897
00:50:43,540 --> 00:50:45,792
It was very archetypal,

898
00:50:45,876 --> 00:50:47,753
jocks picking on the gays.

899
00:50:48,128 --> 00:50:50,130
[Young Rachel laughs] Idiot!

900
00:50:51,048 --> 00:50:54,384
I did what I could to keep myself
out of the gay category,

901
00:50:54,468 --> 00:50:57,971
but I wasn't good enough
to be heterosexual.

902
00:50:58,055 --> 00:51:01,516
So I was just asexual
as far as they were concerned.

903
00:51:04,269 --> 00:51:06,313
I put a lot of pressure on myself

904
00:51:06,396 --> 00:51:10,692
to be the more conventional,
rule-follower child.

905
00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:12,235
You ready, Dad?

906
00:51:14,905 --> 00:51:15,989
Whoa! Yeah!

907
00:51:16,448 --> 00:51:19,618
I think I filled every available gap

908
00:51:19,701 --> 00:51:21,870
in the day with some sort of activity.

909
00:51:22,579 --> 00:51:24,539
So I had diving,

910
00:51:24,623 --> 00:51:26,166
gymnastics team.

911
00:51:33,715 --> 00:51:37,928
[Rachel] Did you feel, like, pressure
to pretend that you were straight?

912
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:40,931
[Josh] There was a lot of pressure
towards dating.

913
00:51:42,432 --> 00:51:45,936
There were kids that lost their virginity
and stuff like that.

914
00:51:46,353 --> 00:51:48,271
Um... Not me.

915
00:51:52,234 --> 00:51:53,527
[Rachel]
It's just so weird to me

916
00:51:53,610 --> 00:51:56,530
that you wouldn't have thought
that I would have cared, right?

917
00:51:56,613 --> 00:51:58,782
I mean, I didn't care. I wouldn't...

918
00:51:58,865 --> 00:52:01,034
I mean, my world was gay anyway.

919
00:52:01,118 --> 00:52:03,995
Like, why wouldn't you have wanted
to jump into my world?

920
00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:06,665
Your world was too gay.
[laughs]

921
00:52:06,748 --> 00:52:08,708
Your world was too gay.
It was too artsy.

922
00:52:08,792 --> 00:52:11,461
I didn't connect with it.
I think that was...

923
00:52:12,462 --> 00:52:13,672
That wasn't where I was.

924
00:52:13,755 --> 00:52:15,590
It's not where I am, I don't think.

925
00:52:20,929 --> 00:52:23,682
[Rachel] So, Fernando,
can you tell me how we met?

926
00:52:24,224 --> 00:52:26,184
[Fernando]
So, we met in ninth grade.

927
00:52:27,144 --> 00:52:29,271
At that time,
you kind of recognized those people

928
00:52:29,354 --> 00:52:31,815
that were living
to the beat of their own drum,

929
00:52:31,898 --> 00:52:34,025
I would say, um, through...

930
00:52:34,860 --> 00:52:37,737
you know, hair, and clothes, and music.

931
00:52:37,821 --> 00:52:40,532
And you were one of those people

932
00:52:40,615 --> 00:52:44,327
that had the whole package
of what I was looking for in a friend,

933
00:52:44,411 --> 00:52:47,998
you know, someone that just, again,
walked to the beat of their own drum.

934
00:52:50,083 --> 00:52:52,210
[Young Rachel gasps] Ooh!

935
00:52:52,294 --> 00:52:54,171
Always looking for attention!

936
00:52:54,254 --> 00:52:58,175
[Young Rachel] Pssht!
Oh, nice coming from you, Miss Green.

937
00:52:58,258 --> 00:52:59,176
[laughs]

938
00:52:59,926 --> 00:53:05,056
[Rachel] Do you feel like our friend group
identified as the queer group at school?

939
00:53:05,140 --> 00:53:09,603
We didn't really identify as queer.

940
00:53:10,020 --> 00:53:16,193
In the '90s, we identified as weirdos,
artists, punk rockers, rebels.

941
00:53:16,276 --> 00:53:19,988
Like, that was our identity,
and that's what drew us all together.

942
00:53:20,071 --> 00:53:23,825
That's why it was so accepting
for all of our friends

943
00:53:23,909 --> 00:53:27,454
to experiment with their sexuality.

944
00:53:27,537 --> 00:53:31,041
Can I come over
and, like, hang out with your computer?

945
00:53:31,625 --> 00:53:32,459
[girl] Okay.

946
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,296
[Rachel] Do you remember
when I found out about the store?

947
00:53:36,379 --> 00:53:37,214
Yes.

948
00:53:38,590 --> 00:53:41,259
You had said,
"My parents own a bookstore."

949
00:53:41,801 --> 00:53:44,346
And I said,
"Oh, what bookstore do they own?"

950
00:53:44,429 --> 00:53:46,348
You're just like, "They own a bookstore.

951
00:53:46,431 --> 00:53:48,767
You probably never heard of it.
It's called Circus of Books."

952
00:53:49,517 --> 00:53:53,521
And we were like,
"Circus of Books? What?" [laughs]

953
00:53:53,605 --> 00:53:55,899
"Rachel, Circus of Book is a porno store!"

954
00:53:58,443 --> 00:54:00,654
[Rachel]
I just remember being really confused

955
00:54:00,737 --> 00:54:03,657
'cause it didn't align
with who I thought my parents were.

956
00:54:05,116 --> 00:54:08,870
It was sort of an interesting, fun secret,
but also kind of a dangerous secret,

957
00:54:08,954 --> 00:54:11,456
'cause I could definitely tell
it could easily be a problem.

958
00:54:12,540 --> 00:54:14,793
[Fernando] As rebellious and as precocious
as we were,

959
00:54:14,876 --> 00:54:16,586
we were still pretty innocent.

960
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:20,674
[Rachel]
What's funny to me is that

961
00:54:20,757 --> 00:54:25,136
I didn't think my parents got my world
with artists and queer kids.

962
00:54:26,096 --> 00:54:28,682
But they were actually intersecting
with my scene

963
00:54:28,765 --> 00:54:30,517
without me even realizing it.

964
00:54:31,309 --> 00:54:34,688
[Fernando] Yeah, it felt like
we had seen Karen and Barry one way,

965
00:54:34,771 --> 00:54:37,274
very parental
and a little bit more strict.

966
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,068
Certainly not subversive, you know?

967
00:54:40,151 --> 00:54:42,696
Certainly not part of the counterculture.

968
00:54:44,322 --> 00:54:48,159
But when we realized
they were invested in Circus of Books,

969
00:54:48,243 --> 00:54:51,371
it started to become clear to us

970
00:54:51,454 --> 00:54:54,958
your parents were more layered
than we had previously thought.

971
00:54:56,209 --> 00:54:59,754
It allowed us to realize

972
00:54:59,838 --> 00:55:01,965
that you can live as an adult

973
00:55:03,675 --> 00:55:05,343
without following the path

974
00:55:05,427 --> 00:55:07,429
that everyone's telling you
you need to follow.

975
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,102
[Weston] I think that
when your parents acquired their business,

976
00:55:14,185 --> 00:55:19,024
they really didn't know
what they were potentially facing,

977
00:55:19,107 --> 00:55:22,193
and the terrible thing about it was
that nobody could know.

978
00:55:23,653 --> 00:55:26,740
There was no way
to look at the obscenity statute

979
00:55:26,823 --> 00:55:29,617
and predict whether something
that one was selling

980
00:55:29,701 --> 00:55:31,411
might trigger a prosecution.

981
00:55:32,495 --> 00:55:36,499
[Karen] We knew people who had been
in this business and had gone to jail.

982
00:55:36,583 --> 00:55:41,713
But what I thought initially was,
"We'll just go out of business,"

983
00:55:42,130 --> 00:55:45,800
and when we finally sat down
with John Weston,

984
00:55:45,884 --> 00:55:48,470
he said that is a terrible, terrible plan.

985
00:55:49,387 --> 00:55:52,223
[Weston] Government always wants
its pound of flesh.

986
00:55:53,016 --> 00:55:56,227
So, if at the very beginning of something,
you close it down,

987
00:55:56,853 --> 00:55:58,980
then you've got less to offer.

988
00:55:59,814 --> 00:56:02,233
[Karen]
If the war on drugs ever goes away,

989
00:56:02,317 --> 00:56:06,696
all these people who fight drugs
are going to lose their jobs.

990
00:56:06,780 --> 00:56:10,825
Well, it was the same thing
with people who fought obscenity.

991
00:56:10,909 --> 00:56:13,203
They needed somebody to negotiate with,

992
00:56:13,286 --> 00:56:16,748
and so we were advised
not to close at all,

993
00:56:16,831 --> 00:56:19,167
but to stay in business and fight.

994
00:56:20,543 --> 00:56:23,380
[Micah] I mean, it's scary
when the government comes after you.

995
00:56:23,463 --> 00:56:25,882
That is just really powerful...

996
00:56:26,841 --> 00:56:29,010
and for basically religious reasons.

997
00:56:30,136 --> 00:56:32,180
It's pretty scary stuff to me.

998
00:56:33,431 --> 00:56:36,101
[Weston] I got a communication
from the government, saying,

999
00:56:36,184 --> 00:56:38,895
"We need Barry Mason to say, 'Guilty.'"

1000
00:56:40,021 --> 00:56:43,400
He has to be convicted and made guilty
of a felony.

1001
00:56:45,443 --> 00:56:48,905
Just at a human level, the idea
that Barry Mason should be a felon

1002
00:56:48,988 --> 00:56:50,323
was just unacceptable.

1003
00:56:50,407 --> 00:56:53,660
I mean, that's just not part
of any world that I'd wanna live in.

1004
00:56:54,661 --> 00:56:57,997
And so I implored them to reconsider.

1005
00:56:59,624 --> 00:57:01,668
To see who he was as a person,

1006
00:57:01,751 --> 00:57:04,587
and what the impact on him,
and his family,

1007
00:57:04,671 --> 00:57:06,589
and to some extent, you, would have been

1008
00:57:06,673 --> 00:57:08,633
if your dad had been forced
to stand up in court

1009
00:57:08,716 --> 00:57:11,886
and say, "Yes, I'm guilty.
I've committed a federal felony."

1010
00:57:14,639 --> 00:57:18,810
[Barry] The reason it was resolved was
that Bill Clinton got elected.

1011
00:57:18,893 --> 00:57:21,771
The President of the United States,
Bill Clinton.

1012
00:57:22,355 --> 00:57:23,648
-All right.
-[applause]

1013
00:57:23,731 --> 00:57:24,732
Thank you.

1014
00:57:25,733 --> 00:57:28,736
So, the prosecutors got switched.

1015
00:57:28,820 --> 00:57:30,780
There was a different attitude
towards obscenity,

1016
00:57:30,864 --> 00:57:33,158
and I'm sure that created a climate

1017
00:57:33,241 --> 00:57:40,206
which allowed my earnest request
for reconsideration to be evaluated.

1018
00:57:40,623 --> 00:57:44,377
They were able
to see the fineness of your dad.

1019
00:57:47,755 --> 00:57:50,842
They accepted the guilty plea
by the corporation.

1020
00:57:51,384 --> 00:57:54,637
[Barry] Corporation pleads guilty.
They let you out on parole.

1021
00:57:55,263 --> 00:57:57,765
I had to just go down
to the Federal building once a month,

1022
00:57:57,849 --> 00:57:59,225
sign a little piece of paper

1023
00:57:59,309 --> 00:58:02,854
that said I didn't commit
any crimes that month,

1024
00:58:02,937 --> 00:58:06,774
and then that ended the whole situation.
I was off.

1025
00:58:07,984 --> 00:58:12,739
It turns out our First Amendment rights
are really protected

1026
00:58:12,822 --> 00:58:18,703
by the most extreme kind of speech
and the most extreme kind of material.

1027
00:58:20,121 --> 00:58:24,250
The greatest right
that any nation can afford its people

1028
00:58:24,334 --> 00:58:26,127
is the right to be left alone.

1029
00:58:27,337 --> 00:58:29,339
[Karen]
Josh needs a perfectly round head.

1030
00:58:29,422 --> 00:58:30,340
Say hi.

1031
00:58:36,137 --> 00:58:37,472
[Rachel]
So what did you just say?

1032
00:58:37,555 --> 00:58:42,644
So, in June, both stores had
the worst month they've ever had.

1033
00:58:43,102 --> 00:58:43,937
And...

1034
00:58:44,562 --> 00:58:48,650
it's still profitable, but it's not, um...

1035
00:58:48,733 --> 00:58:50,652
It's not sustainable.

1036
00:58:50,735 --> 00:58:53,571
At some point, it's just...

1037
00:58:53,655 --> 00:58:54,906
Like yesterday.

1038
00:58:56,115 --> 00:58:57,742
I was leaving the store,

1039
00:58:58,326 --> 00:59:00,203
and I'm trying to get out, and I can't,

1040
00:59:00,286 --> 00:59:02,622
because the man there
just bought something,

1041
00:59:02,705 --> 00:59:04,624
and he's got a walker.

1042
00:59:04,707 --> 00:59:07,085
And he's sort of looking
at what he bought,

1043
00:59:07,168 --> 00:59:08,545
so he's not opening the door.

1044
00:59:08,628 --> 00:59:11,047
And because he's got the walker,
he's stuck there.

1045
00:59:11,130 --> 00:59:14,884
And this is our customer base.
They're aging, uh...

1046
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:16,886
mostly men...

1047
00:59:17,428 --> 00:59:19,430
who can barely even walk.

1048
00:59:19,514 --> 00:59:21,683
[Rachel]
Are you, like, mixing it in as a cereal?

1049
00:59:21,766 --> 00:59:24,227
[Barry] Yeah, 'cause otherwise,
you can't eat the little pieces.

1050
00:59:24,310 --> 00:59:25,687
This way, I can eat all the pieces.

1051
00:59:25,770 --> 00:59:28,856
[Karen] So, I think
instead of a business decision,

1052
00:59:28,940 --> 00:59:32,277
I have a psychology problem because...

1053
00:59:33,111 --> 00:59:35,989
you know, I've run this business
for all these years

1054
00:59:36,072 --> 00:59:37,865
without knowing what I'm doing,

1055
00:59:38,449 --> 00:59:40,368
and...

1056
00:59:40,952 --> 00:59:43,079
I need to close it,

1057
00:59:43,162 --> 00:59:48,751
but I still got people working for me
who won't get as good a job if they--

1058
00:59:48,835 --> 00:59:52,088
-That's cheese.
-Cottage cheese, yeah.

1059
00:59:52,171 --> 00:59:54,299
-If they, um...
-Cheese.

1060
00:59:55,133 --> 00:59:57,176
[Karen]
...you know, if we close.

1061
00:59:58,344 --> 00:59:59,554
I don't know.

1062
00:59:59,971 --> 01:00:01,639
You know, that's... I don't know.

1063
01:00:03,933 --> 01:00:07,061
And I don't know why you think
this is worth documenting.

1064
01:00:08,438 --> 01:00:11,774
Because, I mean,
this happens in small business.

1065
01:00:11,899 --> 01:00:15,987
It's just...
It's a different, um, business model.

1066
01:00:16,070 --> 01:00:17,488
I don't like all this filming.

1067
01:00:17,572 --> 01:00:20,450
I don't know what
you're gonna come up with from this.

1068
01:00:22,744 --> 01:00:25,872
[Alaska]
Karen and Barry were in a constant state

1069
01:00:25,955 --> 01:00:30,251
of... panic
about the collapse of their business.

1070
01:00:32,003 --> 01:00:34,172
And so, it was constantly like,

1071
01:00:34,255 --> 01:00:37,634
"Oh, this is it.
We're closing the doors this week.

1072
01:00:37,717 --> 01:00:39,844
This is it. This is the end."

1073
01:00:39,927 --> 01:00:41,512
That was always the case.

1074
01:00:41,596 --> 01:00:44,182
So, that's why I'm sort of in disbelief
about it closing.

1075
01:00:44,265 --> 01:00:46,726
I'm like,
"Well, it was always about to close."

1076
01:00:53,399 --> 01:00:55,026
[Karen]
These are letters of reference.

1077
01:00:55,109 --> 01:00:58,404
It just says, "He's worked for us
for over 25 years.

1078
01:00:58,488 --> 01:01:01,991
And if you need a good, honest,
reliable, hard-working employee,

1079
01:01:02,075 --> 01:01:03,826
you've found him in Ben."

1080
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:06,704
-Oh, I'm so sorry, but good for you.
-Thanks.

1081
01:01:09,123 --> 01:01:11,793
[Liefke]
Today is my last day. I'm retiring.

1082
01:01:13,419 --> 01:01:16,047
So, I'd say it's kind of a depressor,

1083
01:01:16,631 --> 01:01:18,007
but it's time.

1084
01:01:19,509 --> 01:01:23,388
The worst thing in the world
is laying off a good employee...

1085
01:01:25,431 --> 01:01:28,434
because you can't afford
to keep them anymore.

1086
01:01:28,518 --> 01:01:30,812
It's a terrible thing to do.

1087
01:01:33,022 --> 01:01:34,649
[Liefke]
The past will never come back.

1088
01:01:35,817 --> 01:01:38,236
And unless you're willing
to invest in the future,

1089
01:01:38,319 --> 01:01:40,988
there's no use even trying to...

1090
01:01:41,447 --> 01:01:43,533
exist anymore.

1091
01:01:45,618 --> 01:01:47,036
[Karen]
"As I'm sure you can see,

1092
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:51,749
business at the store is slowing down
despite our best efforts to improve sales.

1093
01:01:51,833 --> 01:01:53,000
This is to let you know

1094
01:01:53,084 --> 01:01:56,462
that I have listed the store for lease
with a real estate agent.

1095
01:01:56,546 --> 01:01:59,173
I welcome any suggestion
of new merchandise

1096
01:01:59,257 --> 01:02:02,051
and any ideas
for a different use of the space."

1097
01:02:03,970 --> 01:02:06,305
Post it here by the time clock.

1098
01:02:07,807 --> 01:02:08,808
Let me see.

1099
01:02:09,434 --> 01:02:10,768
Okay, so this is...

1100
01:02:12,145 --> 01:02:13,896
That's gonna go... They'll see it.

1101
01:02:19,736 --> 01:02:23,865
[Rachel] Can you describe that day
that you came out to Mom and Dad,

1102
01:02:23,948 --> 01:02:28,202
and what led you to feel
that you could be more open about it?

1103
01:02:28,286 --> 01:02:31,247
What led you to really think
that you should be?

1104
01:02:31,330 --> 01:02:35,376
So, it probably wasn't
until after high school

1105
01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:39,338
that it even started
to enter my mind as an option.

1106
01:02:39,422 --> 01:02:43,509
And it wasn't really until college
that I sort of started transitioning

1107
01:02:43,593 --> 01:02:50,057
from, um, who I was outwardly
towards who I felt like I was inwardly.

1108
01:02:52,935 --> 01:02:55,605
I came home a number of times from college

1109
01:02:55,688 --> 01:02:59,484
expecting to come out,
and it didn't happen.

1110
01:03:01,444 --> 01:03:04,989
I put a lot of pressure on myself
to kind of make it happen.

1111
01:03:07,617 --> 01:03:10,203
I made sure I had my flight...

1112
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:12,163
booked and paid for,

1113
01:03:12,663 --> 01:03:17,084
'cause it wasn't an impossible thought

1114
01:03:17,168 --> 01:03:20,505
that, um, you know,
I was gonna get thrown out.

1115
01:03:22,548 --> 01:03:23,382
Yeah.

1116
01:03:25,051 --> 01:03:26,052
Are you okay?

1117
01:03:26,135 --> 01:03:27,512
[Rachel sniffles]

1118
01:03:32,391 --> 01:03:34,185
[Josh]
Should I read the questions to myself?

1119
01:03:34,268 --> 01:03:37,396
No, I'm sorry.
It's just upsetting to me to hear that.

1120
01:03:42,151 --> 01:03:43,236
[Karen] Friday night dinner,

1121
01:03:43,319 --> 01:03:46,113
just before he was going back
to school at Columbia.

1122
01:03:46,781 --> 01:03:48,783
[Barry] He was at one end
of our dining room table,

1123
01:03:48,866 --> 01:03:50,034
and I was at the other.

1124
01:03:51,244 --> 01:03:56,082
[Josh] Someone was having a conversation
that required a Post-It Note and a pen.

1125
01:03:56,999 --> 01:04:00,211
And I just started scribbling
on the Post-It Note, "I'm gay."

1126
01:04:02,505 --> 01:04:05,299
I flung the pen and paper on the table.

1127
01:04:06,843 --> 01:04:10,304
And I'm trying to see who wrote this note,
'cause it didn't have his name on it.

1128
01:04:12,139 --> 01:04:15,393
Finally, his mother and him went upstairs,

1129
01:04:15,476 --> 01:04:16,978
and I said, "Wow! It's Josh."

1130
01:04:19,564 --> 01:04:22,233
[Karen] I said, "Are you sure?
Why are you doing this?

1131
01:04:22,650 --> 01:04:24,360
God must be punishing me."

1132
01:04:25,653 --> 01:04:28,281
[Josh] God would punish her
for having this business,

1133
01:04:28,656 --> 01:04:32,034
and I think she was thinking
this was a punishment.

1134
01:04:35,538 --> 01:04:37,290
[Karen] Up until that point,

1135
01:04:37,373 --> 01:04:43,796
it had just existed somewhere
outside any of my core values.

1136
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:45,256
It wasn't, uh...

1137
01:04:45,339 --> 01:04:48,593
It wasn't something
I really needed to think very hard about.

1138
01:04:49,135 --> 01:04:53,514
I was fine with anybody who was gay
as far as I was concerned,

1139
01:04:53,598 --> 01:04:57,768
but I really wasn't prepared
to have a gay child.

1140
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,023
[Josh] I was actually expecting Dad
to be more upset about it,

1141
01:05:02,106 --> 01:05:05,902
just 'cause it's usually the dad
that throws the gay son out of the house.

1142
01:05:06,819 --> 01:05:09,488
And he was...
Yeah, he was really good about it.

1143
01:05:11,032 --> 01:05:13,910
[Barry] When he told us,
I was just simply surprised.

1144
01:05:14,368 --> 01:05:17,371
The only thing
that I was even slightly upset about was

1145
01:05:17,455 --> 01:05:19,790
that he had kept it a secret,

1146
01:05:19,874 --> 01:05:22,793
because it would have made
absolutely no difference to me.

1147
01:05:26,797 --> 01:05:28,799
His plane was the next morning,

1148
01:05:28,883 --> 01:05:31,677
so we didn't get a chance
to talk much about it.

1149
01:05:33,054 --> 01:05:35,056
[Josh]
As we were driving to the airport,

1150
01:05:35,431 --> 01:05:37,767
he said, "You know...

1151
01:05:38,935 --> 01:05:40,853
men can take advantage of other men

1152
01:05:40,937 --> 01:05:43,439
just as much as men can take advantage
of women."

1153
01:05:44,231 --> 01:05:47,193
Which I thought was actually quite astute.

1154
01:05:51,739 --> 01:05:54,951
Why do you think
Mom had any issue whatsoever

1155
01:05:55,034 --> 01:05:57,244
when she was so deeply in this world?

1156
01:05:58,162 --> 01:06:04,585
Everything about the business was really
in support of family, ironically.

1157
01:06:06,128 --> 01:06:08,965
The gay part of it fell
on the business side

1158
01:06:09,048 --> 01:06:11,384
of that mental dividing line.

1159
01:06:14,261 --> 01:06:16,764
[Karen]
I never thought of my employees

1160
01:06:16,847 --> 01:06:20,768
in the same way
that I thought about my son.

1161
01:06:22,812 --> 01:06:25,564
I was fine working with gay people,

1162
01:06:26,148 --> 01:06:31,487
but when it came to my own family
and what I had absorbed in the religion,

1163
01:06:31,570 --> 01:06:33,322
I was not fine at all.

1164
01:06:35,116 --> 01:06:36,659
When it came to my own son,

1165
01:06:36,742 --> 01:06:42,623
I realized that I had some thoughts
about gay people that needed to change.

1166
01:06:52,717 --> 01:06:55,886
Well, I don't know why he didn't come,
the trash.

1167
01:06:55,970 --> 01:06:57,388
What day does he come?

1168
01:06:58,097 --> 01:07:00,975
-I think Thursdays, but I can check.
-Well, that's today.

1169
01:07:11,819 --> 01:07:14,405
[Rachel] Why were you saying
that you wanna close in June?

1170
01:07:14,989 --> 01:07:16,991
You know, if it's... Sales are bad.

1171
01:07:17,074 --> 01:07:19,160
We're trying to keep our staff.

1172
01:07:19,243 --> 01:07:22,038
It seems, because the business is so slow,

1173
01:07:22,121 --> 01:07:25,708
they're not even doing
kind of minimal straightening.

1174
01:07:26,667 --> 01:07:27,501
So...

1175
01:07:29,253 --> 01:07:31,922
You know, everybody's kind of done here.

1176
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:34,133
So, goodbye...

1177
01:07:34,925 --> 01:07:36,218
to this box.

1178
01:07:38,429 --> 01:07:42,349
You know, if I thought
it was a viable business for anybody,

1179
01:07:42,433 --> 01:07:44,602
then I would put it up for sale,

1180
01:07:44,685 --> 01:07:47,688
but I don't think
that anybody will be able to make it

1181
01:07:47,772 --> 01:07:49,273
more than what we make it.

1182
01:07:49,732 --> 01:07:53,319
But, you know, it may go another year,
say, or something.

1183
01:07:53,402 --> 01:07:56,155
Or not. It's hard to know.

1184
01:07:57,323 --> 01:07:59,075
Which is why I wish your movie was done,

1185
01:07:59,158 --> 01:08:01,869
so I could see how it would end too.
I would like that.

1186
01:08:04,455 --> 01:08:06,749
This is a statement about this business.

1187
01:08:06,832 --> 01:08:07,833
[chuckles]

1188
01:08:09,794 --> 01:08:12,213
It kind of all ended up in the dumpster.

1189
01:08:19,470 --> 01:08:20,304
Here.

1190
01:08:20,387 --> 01:08:22,473
I just think it's kind of interesting.

1191
01:08:22,556 --> 01:08:23,891
[chuckling]

1192
01:08:23,974 --> 01:08:25,684
That's, like, a sales, you know...

1193
01:08:26,393 --> 01:08:28,020
It tracks it.

1194
01:08:29,688 --> 01:08:32,066
Okay, so this is 2008,

1195
01:08:32,525 --> 01:08:36,904
which is, like, the recession
and also the Internet,

1196
01:08:36,987 --> 01:08:39,907
and then you can just see it going down.

1197
01:08:42,034 --> 01:08:46,080
When people started selling
on the Internet, we didn't.

1198
01:08:46,163 --> 01:08:48,791
We have a website,
but it really doesn't sell anything.

1199
01:08:48,874 --> 01:08:52,002
Well, it just tells people what we have
and they come into our stores.

1200
01:08:53,838 --> 01:08:57,925
I've wondered how they could survive
with the Internet,

1201
01:08:58,008 --> 01:09:00,928
because porno was devastated.

1202
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,473
You can't sell
what people can get for free.

1203
01:09:05,224 --> 01:09:07,560
[reporter]
Pornography is pushing the limits online.

1204
01:09:07,935 --> 01:09:11,397
Sexually explicit material
is increasingly available on the Internet.

1205
01:09:12,648 --> 01:09:16,485
The Internet totally devastated
my business.

1206
01:09:16,569 --> 01:09:18,195
It robbed me of my income.

1207
01:09:19,363 --> 01:09:23,367
It also could be considered
the death knell of the gay bar,

1208
01:09:23,450 --> 01:09:25,911
because you don't need to go
to a bar anymore to meet somebody.

1209
01:09:25,995 --> 01:09:27,663
You can meet them online.

1210
01:09:27,746 --> 01:09:29,373
Grindr or SCRUFF.

1211
01:09:31,625 --> 01:09:34,587
[Alaska]
In a lot of ways, the Internet has helped,

1212
01:09:34,670 --> 01:09:37,548
because we don't have to live,
like, in the shadows

1213
01:09:37,631 --> 01:09:40,509
and so, like, oppressed
and afraid anymore.

1214
01:09:40,593 --> 01:09:42,386
But I also think it's, you know...

1215
01:09:42,469 --> 01:09:45,014
I mean, it just sucks
that the younger generation is...

1216
01:09:45,097 --> 01:09:48,392
It's so hard to just talk face-to-face
with one another.

1217
01:09:49,935 --> 01:09:52,897
[Weston]
They weren't just places of commerce.

1218
01:09:52,980 --> 01:09:55,357
They were places of gathering
where people could get together.

1219
01:09:55,441 --> 01:09:59,320
They were places where people could meet
in all the best senses.

1220
01:10:00,029 --> 01:10:01,989
The material may be delivered,

1221
01:10:02,072 --> 01:10:05,409
but it's not going to be a substitute
for human interaction,

1222
01:10:05,492 --> 01:10:07,119
and to the extent that's what's going on,

1223
01:10:07,203 --> 01:10:09,622
I think that's a tragic
and irreplaceable loss.

1224
01:10:19,256 --> 01:10:22,051
I don't think they're gonna want
any of these papers.

1225
01:10:23,302 --> 01:10:24,970
I don't know what I'm giving them anymore.

1226
01:10:25,054 --> 01:10:28,307
It's been such a long time
since I put this stuff in here.

1227
01:10:30,768 --> 01:10:32,770
-[man] I've heard his name, though.
-[Karen] Yeah.

1228
01:10:32,853 --> 01:10:35,439
So, those are some of his covers.

1229
01:10:35,522 --> 01:10:37,358
He was really a nice guy.

1230
01:10:37,942 --> 01:10:40,486
You know, I would like...
If he's not in ONE Archive,

1231
01:10:40,569 --> 01:10:42,613
I think he would like to be in it, so...

1232
01:10:44,323 --> 01:10:45,908
[man] I think you have to sign this.

1233
01:10:47,117 --> 01:10:49,203
-Oh, what?
-It's a deed of gift.

1234
01:10:49,286 --> 01:10:51,372
Just basically saying
that you're giving the materials.

1235
01:10:51,455 --> 01:10:52,665
-Right there.
-Oh, okay.

1236
01:10:52,748 --> 01:10:57,127
And if you don't want it,
just throw it away, 'cause, um...

1237
01:10:57,211 --> 01:10:59,755
You don't know who you're talking to.
We never throw anything away.

1238
01:10:59,838 --> 01:11:02,174
But whatever it is that you have,
we're happy to look at it.

1239
01:11:02,258 --> 01:11:04,426
[Karen] I don't think
we have anything you want there.

1240
01:11:04,510 --> 01:11:06,512
But as long as I'm here,
I'd just like to look at...

1241
01:11:06,595 --> 01:11:09,807
I just think this is really
where it all started.

1242
01:11:09,890 --> 01:11:13,602
So, where the erotica was,
or where the pulp fiction was,

1243
01:11:13,686 --> 01:11:16,188
they would basically put it
behind a big curtain.

1244
01:11:16,605 --> 01:11:19,775
So, there was the problem
of being caught by the police,

1245
01:11:19,858 --> 01:11:22,361
or there was, alternatively,
the problem that...

1246
01:11:22,444 --> 01:11:23,737
the good problem, perhaps,

1247
01:11:23,821 --> 01:11:26,573
that you could meet somebody else
who was looking for the same material.

1248
01:11:26,657 --> 01:11:30,202
So, it was actually a really great thing
to be able to go get them.

1249
01:11:30,286 --> 01:11:32,329
I remember going to Circus of Books,

1250
01:11:32,413 --> 01:11:35,791
and it was a place where you could go
and find other people like yourself.

1251
01:11:35,874 --> 01:11:37,584
[Karen]
The store served its purpose,

1252
01:11:37,668 --> 01:11:40,212
and it's just not...

1253
01:11:40,713 --> 01:11:42,089
[stammering]

1254
01:11:42,172 --> 01:11:43,966
I'll be happy when it's closing.

1255
01:11:44,049 --> 01:11:46,135
Thank you for your donation.
I really appreciate it.

1256
01:11:46,218 --> 01:11:48,846
Well, it's just some stuff.

1257
01:11:51,140 --> 01:11:55,394
This is important, I think.
Much more than our store, this is...

1258
01:11:56,186 --> 01:12:00,649
I mean, the courage that it took
to put these out month after month.

1259
01:12:00,733 --> 01:12:02,443
They had to go in secret.

1260
01:12:02,526 --> 01:12:06,780
But can you imagine some kid
in Iowa or someplace

1261
01:12:06,864 --> 01:12:10,534
getting a copy of this and thinking,
"God! I'm not the only one."

1262
01:12:11,452 --> 01:12:12,786
It's just amazing.

1263
01:12:14,371 --> 01:12:16,623
Should be doing the documentary
about this.

1264
01:12:19,418 --> 01:12:20,919
When Josh came out,

1265
01:12:21,003 --> 01:12:24,089
the next morning,
we took him to the airport,

1266
01:12:24,173 --> 01:12:27,343
and the rule was
that when he got to his dorm,

1267
01:12:27,426 --> 01:12:29,928
he had to call
and say he got to his dorm.

1268
01:12:30,012 --> 01:12:33,849
And so we waited and waited,
and he didn't call,

1269
01:12:33,932 --> 01:12:36,101
and finally, I picked up the phone,
and I said to him,

1270
01:12:36,185 --> 01:12:37,603
"You know, no matter what you are,

1271
01:12:37,686 --> 01:12:40,773
you still have to call your mother
and say you got to your dorm."

1272
01:12:42,441 --> 01:12:46,695
It was much harder for me
to then begin talking about it.

1273
01:12:48,864 --> 01:12:50,991
Karen did not, could not,

1274
01:12:51,533 --> 01:12:55,037
tell any of her friends for a year.

1275
01:12:57,664 --> 01:13:00,959
[Karen]
I was sitting there in the congregation

1276
01:13:01,043 --> 01:13:03,128
just trying to find

1277
01:13:03,212 --> 01:13:06,757
how I was gonna get through
this struggle that I had with who he was,

1278
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:08,258
my wonderful son.

1279
01:13:09,843 --> 01:13:14,390
The idea that he was homosexual
was an abomination in our religion.

1280
01:13:16,100 --> 01:13:18,060
In a marriage like Daddy's and mine,

1281
01:13:18,143 --> 01:13:21,480
the non-religious spouse
has much less trouble

1282
01:13:21,563 --> 01:13:23,774
accepting their homosexual child

1283
01:13:23,857 --> 01:13:25,943
than the religious spouse.

1284
01:13:29,154 --> 01:13:32,074
[Rachel]
Why didn't you ever just drop religion?

1285
01:13:32,616 --> 01:13:35,369
You know, it's just not an option for me.

1286
01:13:36,745 --> 01:13:39,790
If your way of being in the world is
to be religious,

1287
01:13:40,249 --> 01:13:42,543
accepting God is just easier.

1288
01:13:43,669 --> 01:13:47,089
But being religious is not easy.
You have to work at that, too.

1289
01:13:51,385 --> 01:13:57,057
I needed to rethink my theology
in order to be okay with it.

1290
01:13:59,143 --> 01:14:01,562
I took Bible study classes.

1291
01:14:01,645 --> 01:14:04,273
You know, what does
the word "abomination" mean?

1292
01:14:04,356 --> 01:14:07,234
Why do they say that
in relation to homosexuality?

1293
01:14:07,317 --> 01:14:10,404
And what were they really saying
in the context of the time?

1294
01:14:12,823 --> 01:14:17,202
It was a long time of searching,
and acceptance, and learning

1295
01:14:17,286 --> 01:14:23,292
that there was a really profound group
of thinkers, and leaders,

1296
01:14:23,375 --> 01:14:26,003
and people who happened to be gay,

1297
01:14:26,086 --> 01:14:29,673
and were forming these wonderful,
vibrant communities.

1298
01:14:31,091 --> 01:14:32,676
[Barry]
We got involved with PFLAG,

1299
01:14:32,759 --> 01:14:35,721
and she met other women
that had similar experiences.

1300
01:14:36,889 --> 01:14:40,851
It's called Parents, Families, and Friends
of Lesbians and Gays,

1301
01:14:40,934 --> 01:14:43,687
and it's a support group for people

1302
01:14:43,770 --> 01:14:48,192
who need help understanding
what gender issues are.

1303
01:14:49,443 --> 01:14:53,739
She really went through
kind of a transformation after that.

1304
01:14:54,823 --> 01:14:59,620
[Karen] I was not not gonna be
his best mother that I could be.

1305
01:15:01,330 --> 01:15:05,167
Your children have their own path,
and you can't direct it.

1306
01:15:06,418 --> 01:15:10,589
You can only take them
the first few steps on their way.

1307
01:15:12,424 --> 01:15:15,886
But it sure took a lot of work
to come around.

1308
01:15:16,929 --> 01:15:21,058
So we're gonna start
with the Masons telling their story,

1309
01:15:21,141 --> 01:15:22,059
and you...

1310
01:15:22,142 --> 01:15:25,103
Would you like to go first, Karen,
since Barry went first the other time?

1311
01:15:25,187 --> 01:15:28,398
I think let Barry go first.
He has the better story.

1312
01:15:28,482 --> 01:15:31,318
-That'll compensate for you.
-Well.

1313
01:15:32,027 --> 01:15:33,237
Okay, so... [clears throat]

1314
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:37,324
About 15 years ago,

1315
01:15:37,407 --> 01:15:40,744
our son was coming back
from college in New York.

1316
01:15:41,620 --> 01:15:44,039
Now, we're big shots in PFLAG,

1317
01:15:44,122 --> 01:15:46,792
and we just talk about it to them,

1318
01:15:46,875 --> 01:15:48,919
try and make them feel
more comfortable with it.

1319
01:15:49,002 --> 01:15:52,464
And I didn't have a clue that he was gay,
not a clue.

1320
01:15:54,633 --> 01:15:58,720
[Karen] I'm a trained facilitator,
so I can lead support groups.

1321
01:15:58,804 --> 01:16:02,349
I'm kind of the poster child, I think,

1322
01:16:02,432 --> 01:16:06,270
for somebody
who had a really bad reaction to it.

1323
01:16:06,353 --> 01:16:10,566
And I'd like to take back everything
I said to him the night he came out,

1324
01:16:10,649 --> 01:16:12,693
but it doesn't go away,

1325
01:16:12,776 --> 01:16:15,779
and unfortunately, I speak a lot,
so I have to remember it.

1326
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:20,867
Their involvement
in PFLAG has been amazing.

1327
01:16:21,577 --> 01:16:22,953
I think at some point...

1328
01:16:24,037 --> 01:16:28,458
Mom said that it's the parents' role
to fight for change,

1329
01:16:28,542 --> 01:16:30,335
and it's the kids' role

1330
01:16:30,419 --> 01:16:34,548
to have as normal a life as possible
and just get on with things.

1331
01:16:37,050 --> 01:16:38,594
[inaudible]

1332
01:16:38,677 --> 01:16:42,139
[Karen] You just always think
you know what's best,

1333
01:16:42,222 --> 01:16:43,390
and you're wrong.

1334
01:16:44,975 --> 01:16:46,602
Yeah, parents, uh...

1335
01:16:47,352 --> 01:16:50,314
are only smart
for a very small window of time.

1336
01:16:50,397 --> 01:16:51,565
[laughs]

1337
01:16:51,648 --> 01:16:54,693
I'm happy with who I am because of them.

1338
01:16:55,527 --> 01:16:57,195
So, um...

1339
01:16:58,697 --> 01:16:59,531
Yeah.

1340
01:17:00,032 --> 01:17:02,200
I'm not very good
at finishing my sentences.

1341
01:17:05,037 --> 01:17:10,667
I've spent the last 20 years helping
other people understand and accept

1342
01:17:10,751 --> 01:17:16,632
the gender variations in their children,
and there are a lot of gender variations.

1343
01:17:17,424 --> 01:17:18,592
And they're all okay,

1344
01:17:19,301 --> 01:17:21,261
and I hope you put that in this movie.

1345
01:17:25,891 --> 01:17:27,684
[indistinct chatter]

1346
01:17:32,105 --> 01:17:33,023
[Rachel] Mom!

1347
01:17:33,774 --> 01:17:36,401
Now I wanna find my, uh, husband

1348
01:17:36,485 --> 01:17:38,445
so that we get a group picture.

1349
01:17:38,528 --> 01:17:41,073
-Okay. Yeah.
-You guys will be at the end.

1350
01:17:46,119 --> 01:17:49,122
[Rachel] We're taking a picture?
You're here to take a picture? Good.

1351
01:17:52,334 --> 01:17:54,419
Dad, give me the camera.
You should go in.

1352
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:56,254
Okay, I'll get one.

1353
01:18:00,425 --> 01:18:02,010
-[camera shutter clicking]
-[Rachel] Okay.

1354
01:18:03,762 --> 01:18:07,432
Well, you organized a really big picture.
That was hard.

1355
01:18:08,558 --> 01:18:10,644
I know, and don't keep calling me,

1356
01:18:10,727 --> 01:18:12,729
'cause this is like my job
at PFLAG to do this.

1357
01:18:12,813 --> 01:18:13,980
[Rachel] I'm not. That was it.

1358
01:18:14,064 --> 01:18:15,273
Hi again!

1359
01:18:17,401 --> 01:18:20,529
[announcer] Parents and Friends
of Lesbians and Gays, PFLAG!

1360
01:18:20,612 --> 01:18:22,280
[cheering]

1361
01:18:22,948 --> 01:18:24,783
[announcer] Forty years,
ladies and gentlemen,

1362
01:18:24,866 --> 01:18:27,077
Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays,

1363
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:29,162
moms, dads, brothers, sisters,

1364
01:18:30,038 --> 01:18:31,957
proud parents.

1365
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:34,584
[crowd cheering]

1366
01:18:36,086 --> 01:18:37,337
[Karen]
If you watch the parade,

1367
01:18:37,421 --> 01:18:39,923
you'll see nobody gets
this kind of cheering.

1368
01:18:40,006 --> 01:18:41,675
Just the PFLAG,

1369
01:18:41,758 --> 01:18:44,469
and it's for the parents
who came before us,

1370
01:18:44,553 --> 01:18:48,181
the people who were there
when there was nobody standing up

1371
01:18:48,265 --> 01:18:50,183
for the people who came out as gay.

1372
01:18:52,894 --> 01:18:55,021
I wish my parents were here.

1373
01:18:55,105 --> 01:18:57,149
[crowd cheering]

1374
01:18:58,942 --> 01:19:01,778
-[Rachel] Dad, look, there's your store.
-I know!

1375
01:19:03,113 --> 01:19:04,489
[woman in crowd]
Whoo, Barry!

1376
01:19:15,709 --> 01:19:21,089
No one has ever given us
anything we haven't had to fight for.

1377
01:19:25,719 --> 01:19:29,431
I have seen so many changes in this world.

1378
01:19:31,516 --> 01:19:33,059
For the better and for the worse.

1379
01:19:36,354 --> 01:19:38,899
But I have hope, and there is hope.

1380
01:19:39,441 --> 01:19:42,652
I'm not gonna end this on a sour note.

1381
01:19:43,195 --> 01:19:44,446
This is a good note,

1382
01:19:44,529 --> 01:19:48,575
because people are more together today
than they ever have been.

1383
01:20:09,012 --> 01:20:10,806
[Karen]
It's our last hour, so shop quick.

1384
01:20:10,889 --> 01:20:12,557
-[male customer] Last hour?
-Yep.

1385
01:20:12,641 --> 01:20:15,185
We're gonna put up
the closed sign pretty soon.

1386
01:20:16,394 --> 01:20:18,563
You can be the last customer maybe.

1387
01:20:19,064 --> 01:20:20,023
Okay.

1388
01:20:21,066 --> 01:20:24,361
Owner of the last item
sold by Circus of Books.

1389
01:20:24,444 --> 01:20:25,362
[female customer] Yeah.

1390
01:20:25,946 --> 01:20:28,323
Well, I always like
to be anonymous, but...

1391
01:20:28,406 --> 01:20:31,117
Well, you could sign it "anonymous"
if you really wanna be a purist.

1392
01:20:31,201 --> 01:20:33,870
No, at this point,
I'm pretty public about it.

1393
01:20:33,954 --> 01:20:34,788
All right!

1394
01:20:34,871 --> 01:20:36,164
[Karen] Okay.

1395
01:20:39,626 --> 01:20:43,672
Barry and Karen have always been
like Mom and Dad almost.

1396
01:20:43,755 --> 01:20:46,341
You know, we've always had...

1397
01:20:46,424 --> 01:20:49,344
-Our surrogate. Like family here.
-Yeah.

1398
01:20:49,803 --> 01:20:51,555
-Goodbye, Karen.
-Bud, you're great.

1399
01:20:51,638 --> 01:20:53,765
Thank you. I'll miss you.

1400
01:20:53,849 --> 01:20:56,852
Well, you're gonna go on
to do good things. I know you are.

1401
01:20:56,935 --> 01:20:58,937
-It was great working with you.
-Thank you, Barry.

1402
01:20:59,020 --> 01:21:01,314
-And I hope everything goes well.
-Thank you.

1403
01:21:02,524 --> 01:21:04,442
-I need to give you a hug.
-Oh, Karen!

1404
01:21:04,985 --> 01:21:07,362
-Thank you so much for everything.
-You've been wonderful.

1405
01:21:19,791 --> 01:21:21,459
[Karen]
It's not an easy trick to be married

1406
01:21:21,543 --> 01:21:24,379
and be in business together
for such a long time.

1407
01:21:24,462 --> 01:21:27,716
-Very hard, actually. [laughs]
-Yeah, he had to listen to me a lot.

1408
01:21:28,717 --> 01:21:31,595
["In the Circus" playing]

1409
01:21:32,679 --> 01:21:37,976
♪ Who's in the circus? ♪

1410
01:21:38,059 --> 01:21:43,315
♪ Who's on the trapeze? ♪

1411
01:21:43,398 --> 01:21:48,528
♪ Who's in the circus with me? ♪

1412
01:21:48,612 --> 01:21:54,200
♪ Who's on the trapeze? ♪

1413
01:22:03,460 --> 01:22:05,462
["Give You Everything" playing]

1414
01:22:12,761 --> 01:22:16,723
♪ Wait on the corner
Till I give you a sign ♪

1415
01:22:16,806 --> 01:22:19,351
♪ Can you see my red bandanna? ♪

1416
01:22:19,434 --> 01:22:21,561
♪ It's set to the right ♪

1417
01:22:21,645 --> 01:22:27,651
♪ We'll get along for the ride ♪

1418
01:22:41,748 --> 01:22:44,918
♪ This is where the sunlight ♪

1419
01:22:45,001 --> 01:22:46,795
♪ Lives on the ground ♪

1420
01:22:46,878 --> 01:22:49,381
♪ It's where lovers meet ♪

1421
01:22:49,464 --> 01:22:51,758
♪ When they need to be found ♪

1422
01:22:51,841 --> 01:22:57,263
♪ It's where you gave me the look
That took me out ♪

1423
01:22:57,347 --> 01:23:02,018
♪ And away and over ♪

1424
01:23:02,102 --> 01:23:05,647
♪ And away ♪

1425
01:23:05,730 --> 01:23:08,566
♪ Let me celebrate ♪

1426
01:23:08,650 --> 01:23:10,860
♪ What you don't understand ♪

1427
01:23:10,944 --> 01:23:13,738
♪ It's where I get the strength ♪

1428
01:23:13,822 --> 01:23:15,740
♪ To be who I am ♪

1429
01:23:15,824 --> 01:23:18,576
♪ And if you give me a look ♪

1430
01:23:18,702 --> 01:23:25,583
♪ I promise I'll always
Give you everything that I have ♪

1431
01:23:25,667 --> 01:23:31,172
♪ Always give you everything that I have ♪

1432
01:23:39,305 --> 01:23:43,810
♪ Cruisin' the alley
With a broken taillight ♪

1433
01:23:43,893 --> 01:23:48,106
♪ Lose a few dollars
But get a good price ♪

1434
01:23:48,189 --> 01:23:52,777
♪ You'll be a friend for the night ♪

1435
01:23:57,490 --> 01:24:03,747
♪ I'll be a friend for the night ♪

1436
01:24:17,719 --> 01:24:20,889
♪ This is where the sunlight ♪

1437
01:24:20,972 --> 01:24:22,849
♪ Lives in the sand ♪

1438
01:24:22,932 --> 01:24:25,185
♪ It's where I want to be ♪

1439
01:24:25,268 --> 01:24:27,562
♪ Whenever I need a hand ♪

1440
01:24:27,645 --> 01:24:33,193
♪ It's where you gave me the look
That took me out ♪

1441
01:24:33,276 --> 01:24:37,947
♪ And away and over ♪

1442
01:24:38,031 --> 01:24:41,659
♪ And away ♪

1443
01:24:41,743 --> 01:24:44,454
♪ Let me celebrate ♪

1444
01:24:44,537 --> 01:24:46,956
♪ What you don't understand ♪

1445
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:49,709
♪ It's where I get the strength ♪

1446
01:24:49,793 --> 01:24:51,628
♪ To be who I am ♪

1447
01:24:51,711 --> 01:24:54,380
♪ And if you give me a look ♪

1448
01:24:54,464 --> 01:25:00,553
♪ I promise I'll always
Give you everything ♪

1449
01:25:00,637 --> 01:25:05,642
♪ Always give you everything ♪

1450
01:25:05,725 --> 01:25:12,398
♪ Always give you everything
That I have ♪

1451
01:25:14,025 --> 01:25:17,570
♪ That I have ♪

1452
01:25:17,654 --> 01:25:20,532
♪ Let me celebrate ♪

1453
01:25:20,615 --> 01:25:22,826
♪ What you don't understand ♪

1454
01:25:22,909 --> 01:25:25,703
♪ It's where I get the strength ♪

1455
01:25:25,787 --> 01:25:27,664
♪ To be who I am ♪

1456
01:25:27,747 --> 01:25:30,333
♪ And if you give me a look ♪

1457
01:25:30,416 --> 01:25:37,090
♪ I promise I'll always
Give you everything that I have ♪

1458
01:25:37,173 --> 01:25:43,930
♪ Always give you everything that I have ♪